944/51 Door Locks - Very theft resistant??
10-21-2004, 04:26 AM
#16
Advanced
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Phx, AZ
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by faithless
Also, I always remove my parking lot decals when I leave school. If a thief sees a little decal that says "Lot 59"
10-21-2004, 06:31 AM
#17
Race Director
On one of the N/A's I had a key wasn't needed to open the drivers side door since it was worn out quite badly. It's possible that someone had tried to pick the lock..
10-21-2004, 09:57 AM
#18
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by tcmdocs944
In the 80's many american vehicals were keyed alike...so close that if you have a few keys from the same brand car plus a worn cylinder, you may not even need to pop the door. Just use another key.
10-21-2004, 10:34 AM
#19
Instructor
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the best solution is to live somewhere with a low crime rate.
Living in Idaho, my Porsche rarely gets locked. People are pretty good here. Most of the time someone gets into your car it is to turn off your headlights that you left on by mistake.
Living in Idaho, my Porsche rarely gets locked. People are pretty good here. Most of the time someone gets into your car it is to turn off your headlights that you left on by mistake.
10-21-2004, 10:40 AM
#20
Pro
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 634
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Low crime rate...Heh heh heh
Phoenix, AZ has the highest rate of stolen vehicles in the nation....
I live in Scottsdale, AZ which is far different from Phoenix (esp. in some of the bad areas) but I'm always on the outskirts.
Hey CIyannou, do you drive your Porsche to school? What lot?
I see a lot of 944s there. Wednesday I saw a beautiful red 944 up close. There is also a owner with a black one that parks out in 59.
Phoenix, AZ has the highest rate of stolen vehicles in the nation....
I live in Scottsdale, AZ which is far different from Phoenix (esp. in some of the bad areas) but I'm always on the outskirts.
Hey CIyannou, do you drive your Porsche to school? What lot?
I see a lot of 944s there. Wednesday I saw a beautiful red 944 up close. There is also a owner with a black one that parks out in 59.
10-21-2004, 11:18 AM
#21
Race Car
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 4,220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had an attempted theft on my GTI not too long ago. I honestly doubt there is too much demand for a 944 now a days, but who knows! Dont keep ANYTHING IN THE CAR, or at least in sight!
What i learned though was this:
- LoJack works... if your local police are well enough equipped to respond correctly. The 90% rate is for counties that are up to date with it. Surprisingly, the cops that came to the scene of my car told me straight out not to even bother with LoJack because they only had like 2 cars setup to take a call for it. Waste of money in my area. (i dont know the validity of that, but i had 2 different cops tell me that!)
-Getting INTO a car is a piece of cake. So is defeating an alarm.
Your best bet is an ignition defeat, or an alarm with a seperate immobilizer. The only thing that kept my GTI on the street was they couldn't drive away! The immobilizer is seperate from the alarm, so they were outta luck! The doors and windows were open and hood was popped within seconds, and they had the alarm off. There was NO WAY to start the car though after that. Gotta love Germans.
If someone WANTS your can bad enough they can bring a tow truck, open your door or break a window , drop the parking brake and tow you off! Some REALLY has to want your car though. And i know of a few events where that HAS happened. Insane!
What i learned though was this:
- LoJack works... if your local police are well enough equipped to respond correctly. The 90% rate is for counties that are up to date with it. Surprisingly, the cops that came to the scene of my car told me straight out not to even bother with LoJack because they only had like 2 cars setup to take a call for it. Waste of money in my area. (i dont know the validity of that, but i had 2 different cops tell me that!)
-Getting INTO a car is a piece of cake. So is defeating an alarm.
Your best bet is an ignition defeat, or an alarm with a seperate immobilizer. The only thing that kept my GTI on the street was they couldn't drive away! The immobilizer is seperate from the alarm, so they were outta luck! The doors and windows were open and hood was popped within seconds, and they had the alarm off. There was NO WAY to start the car though after that. Gotta love Germans.
If someone WANTS your can bad enough they can bring a tow truck, open your door or break a window , drop the parking brake and tow you off! Some REALLY has to want your car though. And i know of a few events where that HAS happened. Insane!
10-21-2004, 12:10 PM
#22
Race Car
Is there anyway to get a key for the factory alarm. I didn't know mine worked until I was running the amp wire through the panel and disconnected the wire. The alarm started sounding. Had no idea what had happened or how to shut it off. It stopped automatically and I thought I was safe. Tried to start the car and it went off again and car didn't stop. Then i realize what I had done and had to reach my hand through the vent to the panel, feel around and connect it again. It would be really nice to have the key for that.
10-21-2004, 12:30 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
"Unfortunately this will work just fine with our cars as well. Worn out lock + key from another 944 = open door(based on first hand experience)."
Works in 911s as well.
Works in 911s as well.
10-21-2004, 02:26 PM
#24
Pro
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 634
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm sure our police have got the hook-up. Being in the highest risk area...
There needs to be a way to lock up the transmission as well. That would be pretty tough to move a car with locked rear wheels, unless they pick it up from the rear.
There needs to be a way to lock up the transmission as well. That would be pretty tough to move a car with locked rear wheels, unless they pick it up from the rear.
10-21-2004, 03:21 PM
#25
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
You can order a new alarm key assembly for $85 IIRC from when I replaced mine, and good alarm brains are a dime a dozen. (well, they would be if some pack rats I know would put a few back in circulation :P) If you take the time to repair it correctly, it works better than any aftermarket system you are gonna get. I know this thing works well because it kept me from getting that first start out of my car after the rebuild. 7 of us LIST MEMBERS, that know a hell of a lot about these cars, spent about 3 hours working on it. I then spent another 2 weeks tracing the guts of the box with the schematics in the factory manuals for the car.
From memory: (and I am not an electrical engineer)
On the circuit board of the alarm brain there a few relays, some very small in size and small voltage. IIRC, the one I am talking about is white in color and about the same size as a small ceramic block resistor. It is actually a small relay that has the signal (power) leads like a resistor, but a ground lead out the bottom cener leadng to the underside of the board. If you trace the power relay (the main relay that cuts power to the DME) out to the send signal to the DME, it has a circle lead with this small resistor in it. From what I can tell, this relay is triggered when the main circuit senses a sudden and quick short circuit. (Like the cutting of wires) This relay looks like it is the send to the power to the DME. So, the DME is actually protected by 2 diffrent power sources, not one long loop with a bunch of relays in it.
There are a few inputs on the DME, and 1 on the alarm brain that are not listed in the schematics as traceable circuits. I assume this is the cuircuit that controls this function. I would love for an electrical engineer to try and find this from what I have said and put it into terms and a schematic that we all can read.
The side effect to this, say when there is no actual short, is why, for the millionth time on this list, we say you must keep the grounding points on these cars in good condition. Clean parts mean a clean signal. I know you will have a lot less frustration with your car's little quirks. (probably mostly side effects of bad grounds) Sure, it can still be hot wired, but who the hell does that anyway?
What I am saying is that there is no need to add an EXCESS mess of to a system that will work as it is designed, as a theft deterrant. The only "theft prevention" is prepration, ie: good insurance. Save the money you are spending on all that crap and up your coverage a notch. You'll thank me for it.
A side note:
Since I am back online, you personal friends of mine might like to know that I am now gainfully employed as a Licensed Insurance Agent for the state of Georgia. : In slick used car salesman voice : Anyone need that top notch high dollar car insurance? Well you just let me know! : back to me, the normal average American :
I actually sell supplimental life and the best cancer policy you will ever see. Talk about preparation.... really.... think about it.... be prepared in the off chance you get cancer. You guys know me well enough that I would not support or sell crap. And insurance??? Hell, I thought this would be the last place I'd be. Sorry guys for the rant, I'm just excited to be employed by an ethically sound company, probably one that few of you have heard of. It's been a long time coming!
Happy motoring. (and you personal friends need to keep in touch with me a little more often!)
From memory: (and I am not an electrical engineer)
On the circuit board of the alarm brain there a few relays, some very small in size and small voltage. IIRC, the one I am talking about is white in color and about the same size as a small ceramic block resistor. It is actually a small relay that has the signal (power) leads like a resistor, but a ground lead out the bottom cener leadng to the underside of the board. If you trace the power relay (the main relay that cuts power to the DME) out to the send signal to the DME, it has a circle lead with this small resistor in it. From what I can tell, this relay is triggered when the main circuit senses a sudden and quick short circuit. (Like the cutting of wires) This relay looks like it is the send to the power to the DME. So, the DME is actually protected by 2 diffrent power sources, not one long loop with a bunch of relays in it.
There are a few inputs on the DME, and 1 on the alarm brain that are not listed in the schematics as traceable circuits. I assume this is the cuircuit that controls this function. I would love for an electrical engineer to try and find this from what I have said and put it into terms and a schematic that we all can read.
The side effect to this, say when there is no actual short, is why, for the millionth time on this list, we say you must keep the grounding points on these cars in good condition. Clean parts mean a clean signal. I know you will have a lot less frustration with your car's little quirks. (probably mostly side effects of bad grounds) Sure, it can still be hot wired, but who the hell does that anyway?
What I am saying is that there is no need to add an EXCESS mess of to a system that will work as it is designed, as a theft deterrant. The only "theft prevention" is prepration, ie: good insurance. Save the money you are spending on all that crap and up your coverage a notch. You'll thank me for it.
A side note:
Since I am back online, you personal friends of mine might like to know that I am now gainfully employed as a Licensed Insurance Agent for the state of Georgia. : In slick used car salesman voice : Anyone need that top notch high dollar car insurance? Well you just let me know! : back to me, the normal average American :
I actually sell supplimental life and the best cancer policy you will ever see. Talk about preparation.... really.... think about it.... be prepared in the off chance you get cancer. You guys know me well enough that I would not support or sell crap. And insurance??? Hell, I thought this would be the last place I'd be. Sorry guys for the rant, I'm just excited to be employed by an ethically sound company, probably one that few of you have heard of. It's been a long time coming!
Happy motoring. (and you personal friends need to keep in touch with me a little more often!)
Last edited by Perry 951; 10-21-2004 at 08:40 PM.
10-21-2004, 05:20 PM
#27
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Any common thief can bust into a car and steal it... no matter what information they know. What makes your Porsche any harder to steal than a Corvette? All cars have the same common devices that can be defeated in similar ways.
If I were to bust into a car or try and steal it, I'm not gonna be there for 1/2 hour to try and get in. I, like most human beings would want to make it quick, so what is the quickest way to accomplish that? Bust the locks or a window. Just because I can explain the inner workings of how an alarm works dosn't make it any easier for a crook to disable it. They have to have some pretty dumb luck to get it going.
Honestly folks, you are missing the message... if someone wants it, they will get it. There is always the possibility of it. If you remove the driving force for a crook to strike (in this case valuables in your car or leaving your car in an easy threft area), you'll limit the chance of it happening.
If I were to bust into a car or try and steal it, I'm not gonna be there for 1/2 hour to try and get in. I, like most human beings would want to make it quick, so what is the quickest way to accomplish that? Bust the locks or a window. Just because I can explain the inner workings of how an alarm works dosn't make it any easier for a crook to disable it. They have to have some pretty dumb luck to get it going.
Honestly folks, you are missing the message... if someone wants it, they will get it. There is always the possibility of it. If you remove the driving force for a crook to strike (in this case valuables in your car or leaving your car in an easy threft area), you'll limit the chance of it happening.
10-21-2004, 05:23 PM
#28
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Oh, besides that, don't you think a crook can find similar, probably even easier directions on how this stuff works? The info was out there long before this post came up....
You can tell or even show someone how to light a fire, that dosn't mean they will take that knowledge and torch your mailbox, or a city. If they have the intent there is nothing you can do to prevent it fom happening.
You can tell or even show someone how to light a fire, that dosn't mean they will take that knowledge and torch your mailbox, or a city. If they have the intent there is nothing you can do to prevent it fom happening.
Last edited by Perry 951; 10-21-2004 at 05:59 PM.
10-21-2004, 05:45 PM
#29
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: A suburb of Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,099
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
3 Posts
I agree with what Kevin Baker said. I once locked my keys in the car and had to call AAA. They sent a tow truck to open the car. The driver spent 15 minutes trying to slim jim the door to no avail. He then pulled out a book on how to open car door by manufacturer. Armed with the 944 entry guide, the driver spent another fruitless 15 minutes. Finally he admitted he could not open the door and left without pay. I was amazed. I had to call my wife and have her bring the spare key.
Don't be overconfident thought, the tow truck driver could not take out a hammer and break the window like a thief could. Like Perry says, if they want it they can get it. But, install a lojac system like I did....get it back AND send the scum to jail.
Don't be overconfident thought, the tow truck driver could not take out a hammer and break the window like a thief could. Like Perry says, if they want it they can get it. But, install a lojac system like I did....get it back AND send the scum to jail.
10-21-2004, 06:44 PM
#30
Instructor
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry Lego...
I think I was using the wrong terminology...(just learning locksmith stuff)...I thought the tumblers were 'pins'. I am not saying it is really sophisticated, just better than one-sided tumblers (like many of my older cars).
Lego - where did you get the new keyed-alike cylinders and can the alarm cyl. be done with them?
**BTW*** side note--- I am not that big on "br#*k into my c#r" posts but this is really no insider info. This post has really turned into a theft deterrant post anyway.
Hey! Why cant we just wire 12V to under the Drivers door handle with a kill switch somewhere. That would teach them!
I think I was using the wrong terminology...(just learning locksmith stuff)...I thought the tumblers were 'pins'. I am not saying it is really sophisticated, just better than one-sided tumblers (like many of my older cars).
Lego - where did you get the new keyed-alike cylinders and can the alarm cyl. be done with them?
**BTW*** side note--- I am not that big on "br#*k into my c#r" posts but this is really no insider info. This post has really turned into a theft deterrant post anyway.
Hey! Why cant we just wire 12V to under the Drivers door handle with a kill switch somewhere. That would teach them!