RMills944

I just wanted to let you know someone was trying to find you on this thread in case you haven't seen it:
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-944-951-968-forum/165407-paging-the-person-who-bought-michele-jd-s-red-car.html

Scott at Team Harco

Matt - I agree with you completely. That is why I suggested Tire Rack. Until I became a Nokian dealer, I bought almost all of my tires from them. You can't beat their prices because they deal in such volume.

Now days I spread my tire purchaces around. Some from the Goodyear racing slick guy, some from Tire Rack, some from my rally buddies, some from my Nokian supplier....

And yes - it is true that most winter tires are not good when it gets warm and/or dry. I am very clear with all of my customers that they do not want to drive on Hakka Qs (or now RSis) or on Hakka 2s when it is not cold or wet. The compounds are extremely soft and the tread will literally chunk away if driven hard in dry or warm conditions. That is when I start suggesting the Nokian WR. The WR _will_ survive and actually offer decent performance in warm and dry conditions. I do not recommend them in the summer - but they will survive. There are too many good warm weather tires to waste your Nokians in the summer.

On the other hand - if you are restricted to one set, and only one set of tires, and you live north of the Mason-Dixon line, the WR is an excellent choice.

Matt H

So nice to talk tires with someone who has knowledge

I need to get my set on order this week too.
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Scott at Team Harco

No doubt, eh.

What are you getting? Hakkas or something else? If Hakkas, I assume you'll get them from Greer. Let me know if he doesn't give you a few bucks off - I might be able to save you a little.

Matt H

I am ordering Blizzak I dont think there is enough snow here to justify the Nokian's. Of course, I say that and this will be THE WINTER where it snows every day for months!
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Stan944

FYI: A few brands of winter tires are made of a special porous compound, that dissipates water created from instantaneously melting ice (upon the tire contacting the ice surface). The presence of this layer of water is what makes tires hydroplane on an icy road, so you want to eliminate it. Blizzak is a prime example that HAS this layer. Most cheap winter tires do NOT have this compound, and are not very good in icy conditions.

I believe Blizzak's have only 50% of the tread made out of this porous, ice-gripping compound, and the rest is just regular compound. To me this is an important issue agains Blizzaks, since after some wear, this porous compound will be gone, and most of the ice-gripping capabilities will be gone!

A few years ago I used Yokohama Guardex 600, which is said to have 100% of the tread made out of this porous, ice-gripping compound (unlike Blizzak's 50% only). I was very happy with those (different car though), but Blizzak's still were considered to have better ice-grip than Yokohama Guardex.

Does anybody have info on what's the percentage of the porous ice-gripping compound on other quality winter tires, e.g. Hakka, etc.?

Matt H

Winter tires are made with all sorts of stuff, some brands use crushed walnut shells (no joke).
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Scott at Team Harco

Stan - I can probably offer some insight into your comments and answer most of your questions. I like to think of myself as a student of winter tires.

First off, the tire technology you speak of that Bridgstone was touting for their Blizzak line of tires is called "micro-pore". Simply stated, the idea is to allow the water, that is melted off the ice surface, a place to wick off from the tire contact patch. That is one reason the Blizzaks are so effective on ice when campared against many other winter tires. It is also true that this micro-pore portion of the tread is only about 50% of the total tread depth. Bridgestone points out that the remaining 50% allows the tire to perform as any other snow tire might (but without the extra ice traction). I suspect they had to do this in order to get reasonable tread life from their tires. I would imagine that if the full depth of the tread were of the micro-pore construction, the tires would wear at an extremely high rate due to excessive tread squirm.

Yokohama has their own way of dealing with ice. In addition to using the same technologies as most of the other contenders in this specialized arena (siped tread and hydrophilic compounds) they mold in little slivers of nylon bristles. The claim is that these bristles actually act as tiny studs to bite into the ice surface. As far as I know these bristles are throughout the entire tread depth.

Dunlop uses a special volcanic sand in their winter tires to provide that extra bite on icy surfaces. I don't have the exact name they use handy (can edit later, if I come across it). Since Goodyear, Dunlop and Sumitomo are in the same big family, Goodyear has adopted this same technology for the center tread section of their Assurance line of tires. (Maybe you have seen the commercials). I suspect Sumitomo actually discovered this volcanic sand (since I seem to recall it is unique to Japan) and big brothers Dunlop and Goodyear have jumped in to take advantage of it.

All other high quality winter tires, that I know of, use the same compound throughout the useful depth of the tread. The Blizzak seems to be unique in the fact that their special compound is only 50% deep.

Nokian (Hakka) uses extreme siping and advanced compounds to give them an edge over their competition. In the case of the RSi they use what they call "Rain Forest sipes" and the Hakka 2 uses a spiral sipe system. Either way, the sipes provide additional biting surfaces to get a grip on ice. Another thing that keep Nokian ahead of the others is their test facility. Being from Finland gives them an immediate edge in testing under winter conditions. Their test facility is about 200 miles north of the Arctic Circle - so you might imagine it gets cold there... a lot.

There are a few other brands that are offering good winter traction. The Michelin Arctic Alpin is one of them. One of the best sources for information on winter tires is at the Tire Rack website. There's a lot of good stuff there.

boffam

The high-performance Blizzaks (LM-22 and LM-25) are the same compound all the way through, but it is not the super-ice-grip compound. If your winters are not too severe, these tires are good choices and the dry handling will be miles better than, say, Blizzak WS-50. I have LM-22 on the BMW and I was very pleased with them. But I don't think they are available in 15".

mybaby924s

Thanks, I didn't see that.

Stan944

Scott, this was a very informative comment. And Boffam: the high performance Blizzaks might be a better choice for light winter, and overall driving.
I plan to buy a winter set too, but my choice in winter will be most likely the best ice-gripping tires. Look at my avatar to see why...
I'm still not sure which brand/model is best for me, but I'll check TireRack.

Scott at Team Harco

Stan,

Your avatar is nice (except for the cone hits). If you do some ice trials, or what we call ice runs, frequently - you should consider the new Hakka RSi. It is evidently better than the Hakka Q for ice traction. I can speak from experience, that the Hakka Q is slightly better than the Blizzak WS-15 and WS-50 on ice. The Hakka will give you the best studdless tire traction currently available.

On the other hand, if you do a lot of highway driving in the winter and don't need the ultimate traction of the RSi, you can save some money and buy one of many good brands from the likes of Dunlop, Bridgestone or Michelin.

By the way - if you're in the area of Bancroft on November 20th, you might want to watch for us at the Tall Pines Rally. We'll be in the car in my avatar. Pray for snow and ice so I can use my Hakkas.

97xray

Before we traded the BMW (two days ago) we had Blizzaks on it... I stand beside those tires in a big way.
The BMW was (is) a wheel rear drive car with plenty of low end torque, and without the Blizzaks, my wife was getting towed literally EVERY time that it snowed. Since she put the Blizzaks on, she and I both felt more confident in that car than the front wheel drive Nissan, which is surprisingly good in snow. So, if it was up to me, and my wife was driving - with a kid on board - I would spend twice what I did for Blizzaks again and again.

Just my $0.02.

PSUice944

I have had some great expierience with my Dunlop Wintersport M3s on my VW Jetta. They have performed very well in little to lots of snow, and they do well in the slush and ice too.

The best part? They actually handled better then my stock all seasons!

Thats my Reco, i'd give Tirerack a call! Do remember, you can spend a couple extra $ on the winter tires, as you will only use them 3 mos at a time, they will last a LONG time