Dealer is trying to rip me off!
10-09-2004, 05:05 PM
#31
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there is a GUIDE on the updated pump, i wouldnt call it a pulley, its a curved piece of metal about 3-4 inches long and goes between the timing belt pulley and the idler pulley to keep the belt teeth from touching if the tension gets slacked off.
Firstone I did I got thrown for a loop not knowing what the extra parts were for. So try to give them the benifit of the doubt, afterall, that stuff most people have no idea whats going in or on there cars so Its us to us tech like myself, to inform you of such things. And ask for your old parts, there are some bad guys out there, hell if you came to my shop I would invite you in to have a looksie while it was apart and explain to you how it works.
One time I had done an inspectionII on an E36 M3, a few days later on his way up north the fuel pump gives out and he has it towed to the closes independant he could find, they fixed his fuel pump and told him he needed a major service and promptly showed him some dirty spark plugs they had on the bench saying they were out of his car. He got all pissed off saying he just had a major service done and payed for the pump and continued on his trip.
When he got back into LA he came back yelling and screaming at everyone so the service manager, who knew this wasn't my thing, prompted the customer to drive his car back into the shop where I zipped his plugs out right infront of the both of them (my boss and the customer), brand new. He felt so bad he never came back which is sad because it wasn't even his fault.
Firstone I did I got thrown for a loop not knowing what the extra parts were for. So try to give them the benifit of the doubt, afterall, that stuff most people have no idea whats going in or on there cars so Its us to us tech like myself, to inform you of such things. And ask for your old parts, there are some bad guys out there, hell if you came to my shop I would invite you in to have a looksie while it was apart and explain to you how it works.
One time I had done an inspectionII on an E36 M3, a few days later on his way up north the fuel pump gives out and he has it towed to the closes independant he could find, they fixed his fuel pump and told him he needed a major service and promptly showed him some dirty spark plugs they had on the bench saying they were out of his car. He got all pissed off saying he just had a major service done and payed for the pump and continued on his trip.
When he got back into LA he came back yelling and screaming at everyone so the service manager, who knew this wasn't my thing, prompted the customer to drive his car back into the shop where I zipped his plugs out right infront of the both of them (my boss and the customer), brand new. He felt so bad he never came back which is sad because it wasn't even his fault.
10-09-2004, 05:59 PM
#32
Racer
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Originally Posted by Tony K
Step 1: Announce the dealership's name in first post, LIKE THIS.
Step 2: Crosspost to other forums.
Step 3: Obtain names and email addresses of management at dealership.
Step 4: Forward them a link to this thread. Enjoy the entertainment that $30 bought you.
Step 5: Forget about it and move on. $30 is not worth your time and agony.
Step 2: Crosspost to other forums.
Step 3: Obtain names and email addresses of management at dealership.
Step 4: Forward them a link to this thread. Enjoy the entertainment that $30 bought you.
Step 5: Forget about it and move on. $30 is not worth your time and agony.
10-09-2004, 11:29 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by StoogeMoe
The dealer who did my water pump/timing belt change charged me for three rollers.
944-105-273-02
944-102-277-06
944-105-241-03
and two tensioners
944-105-027-04
944-102-025-07
There's only two rollers right? That first one (944-105-273-02) is for the old water pump. He's telling me the new water pump needs an additional roller. I asked him where that new roller would mount. He had no answer.
Should I tell him he's full of crap or am I wrong somehow?
944-105-273-02
944-102-277-06
944-105-241-03
and two tensioners
944-105-027-04
944-102-025-07
There's only two rollers right? That first one (944-105-273-02) is for the old water pump. He's telling me the new water pump needs an additional roller. I asked him where that new roller would mount. He had no answer.
Should I tell him he's full of crap or am I wrong somehow?
Yes, there are only two rollers (smooth/idler rollers) that are suppose to be in there. They charged you for a 32mm diameter roller (944.105.273.02), and also charged you for the 46.2mm diameter roller (944.105.241.03). Both of these rollers are for the camshaft belt, they go in the same place, and you only need one of these, depending on which waterpump you have in your car. They must have ordered the wrong one, discovered the error, and ordered the "right" one, and you now get to pay for both, since I'm sure they don't want to get "stuck" with a roller they don't want to screw with. All the other part numbers you show, are correct, and should be replaced. Pic below shows my belts with a 951 updated waterpump. It has the belt guard on it, so it will use the 46.2mm roller. The other won't work on it, and visa-versa. If you dont have this guard, you will use the 32mm roller.
You should not be getting charged for a roller they did not install, or because they made an ordering mistake.
10-10-2004, 12:20 AM
#34
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OMG.... I can't believe they would be so stupid. They have made a big mistake trying to juice a lousy $30 dollars out of what could have been a repeat customer... Now they have lost you and for sure more customers because of this brutally moronic decision. Added to the fact that they wasted your time lieing to you to try and cover their tracks.
I will post this on another Porsche forum (Flat-6) if it is not already posted. I'm sure we will reach somebody that knows of the shop.
Epic2112: Heh, I realized that the other day. It sounds German so thats why I thought that.
Granit944: Awesome picture man! I wanted to see what the timing belts looked like. Thanks!
I will post this on another Porsche forum (Flat-6) if it is not already posted. I'm sure we will reach somebody that knows of the shop.
Epic2112: Heh, I realized that the other day. It sounds German so thats why I thought that.
Granit944: Awesome picture man! I wanted to see what the timing belts looked like. Thanks!
10-10-2004, 01:04 AM
#35
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Yes I agree, Granite944 that is a great picture. It also shows you clearly how you have to modify the back cover to accommodate the belt guard.
I checked the cam roller. At least they put the 32mm one on without the belt guard.
I checked the cam roller. At least they put the 32mm one on without the belt guard.
10-10-2004, 01:18 AM
#36
Race Car
What a Nuckin Fut! I hate dealerships that pull this crap on people.
If they didn't installl the belt guard with the new style water-pump, I wonder if they even installed the pump?.. Did they modify the rear timing cover? What did they do with the studs sticking out of the water pump?!
If they didn't installl the belt guard with the new style water-pump, I wonder if they even installed the pump?.. Did they modify the rear timing cover? What did they do with the studs sticking out of the water pump?!
10-10-2004, 01:33 AM
#38
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Part Number for the WP?
Are you sure they installed an "Updated" water pump? It would have studs for the belt guide. The standard pump does not have these studs.
My guess is that they installed a standard water pump and ordered an update kit which includes the larger roiller and belt guide. The update kit is useless on the standard pump.
BTW, a reputable repair shop will give you the parts they removed.
Since they don't seem to have much of an idea about these cars, I'd be concerened about what they really put in there. The rollers are supposed to barely touch the belt. If they used the larger roller on the standard pump, then the roller would under a load when the belt is tensioned. If they used the smaller roller on the updated pump, the roller would be too far from the belt to be effective. And if they installed an updated pump with no belt guard, then there is a chance that the belt teeth will rub against the water pump pulley and wear the teeth.
If they did it right and installed a smaller roller with a standard pump, then they overcharged you for a belt guide and large roller.
So I'd go back to them and asked them if they:
1) overcharged you for parts they did not use, or
2) did the job wrong.
I think I'd take this up with the Regional Porsche NA service representative. A dealer should not make this type of mistake.
My guess is that they installed a standard water pump and ordered an update kit which includes the larger roiller and belt guide. The update kit is useless on the standard pump.
BTW, a reputable repair shop will give you the parts they removed.
Since they don't seem to have much of an idea about these cars, I'd be concerened about what they really put in there. The rollers are supposed to barely touch the belt. If they used the larger roller on the standard pump, then the roller would under a load when the belt is tensioned. If they used the smaller roller on the updated pump, the roller would be too far from the belt to be effective. And if they installed an updated pump with no belt guard, then there is a chance that the belt teeth will rub against the water pump pulley and wear the teeth.
If they did it right and installed a smaller roller with a standard pump, then they overcharged you for a belt guide and large roller.
So I'd go back to them and asked them if they:
1) overcharged you for parts they did not use, or
2) did the job wrong.
I think I'd take this up with the Regional Porsche NA service representative. A dealer should not make this type of mistake.
10-10-2004, 01:36 AM
#39
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Well wait a minute. I never gathered that this was an actual Porsche dealership. If it was THE Porsche dealership, wouldn't their name be something other than Knopf Automotive? The one near me is named simply "Porsche North Scottsdale." StoogeMoe???
10-10-2004, 03:46 AM
#40
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Well wait a minute. I never gathered that this was an actual Porsche dealership. If it was THE Porsche dealership, wouldn't their name be something other than Knopf Automotive? The one near me is named simply "Porsche North Scottsdale." StoogeMoe???
Its a Porsche dealership in Allentown, PA. I did a search for it on the Porsche website.
10-10-2004, 03:53 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by 83na944
If they did it right and installed a smaller roller with a standard pump, then they overcharged you for a belt guide and large roller.
Did they charge you for a belt guide kit also? What all did they list for part numbers installed? Waterpump? anything else? Should all be on your reciet/invoice.
Edit:
I missed the fact it was a Dealership that did this. I'm sure that they'll only install with the original replacement waterpump unless you actually specified that you wanted the updated 951 pump. It would of course include extra labor charges for the time spent cutting out the rear belt cover, or for its replacement. They still charged you for a roller not installed though, per the parts you listed off earlier.
10-10-2004, 04:02 AM
#43
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Personally, I'd want a full refund for something this bad, and probably some other free stuff for being forced to sort all of this out... good luck on monday!
10-10-2004, 11:39 AM
#44
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They owe you a refund for the parts they didn't install. That's a legal issue.
But they definitely owe you an apology for the overcharge and overt lie. There's a matter of confidence that they have broken. You expect a dealer to know the car and perform the service at a high level of expertise. You can this quality of service at any number of garages at a much lower cost.
Seriously, Porsche NA should hear about this.
Good Luck.
But they definitely owe you an apology for the overcharge and overt lie. There's a matter of confidence that they have broken. You expect a dealer to know the car and perform the service at a high level of expertise. You can this quality of service at any number of garages at a much lower cost.
Seriously, Porsche NA should hear about this.
Good Luck.
10-10-2004, 02:40 PM
#45
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Thread Starter
The lack of the belt guide turns up even more inconsistency. Here's the list of parts they have for the water pump. They did not charge for a belt guide.
951-106-021-AX water pump
944-106-132-04 paper gasket
944-106-929-05 thermostat gasket
951-106-155-00 thermostat seal
999-707-283-40 rubber o-ring
944-106-129-05 water thermostat
944-106-313-00 block off plate
ZVW-237-105 coolant
The numbers for the thermostat are for an old style pump, not a turbo pump. But yet the water pump does have the block off plate. And NO, they didn't alter my rear timing belt cover. These chumps are going to have alot of explaining to do.
BTW, does anyone know what the labor hours should be for job like this? They charged my 20 hours which I think is way over. The job was to replace belts, water pump, tensioners, rollers, and crank seal.
951-106-021-AX water pump
944-106-132-04 paper gasket
944-106-929-05 thermostat gasket
951-106-155-00 thermostat seal
999-707-283-40 rubber o-ring
944-106-129-05 water thermostat
944-106-313-00 block off plate
ZVW-237-105 coolant
The numbers for the thermostat are for an old style pump, not a turbo pump. But yet the water pump does have the block off plate. And NO, they didn't alter my rear timing belt cover. These chumps are going to have alot of explaining to do.
BTW, does anyone know what the labor hours should be for job like this? They charged my 20 hours which I think is way over. The job was to replace belts, water pump, tensioners, rollers, and crank seal.