Mikeaagesen

Tell him to buy the m3 and make a custom turbo kit. I have seen some vids on bimmer forums and they seem fast as hell with boost! I have a couple vids on my computer if anyone is interested.

macnewma

I guess it comes down to what the guy wants out of his car. I think styling is a significant difference too.

The BMW handles very well, but not as "sports car" like IMO. I think it is a better all-around car if you include lots of daily-driving miles. You will spend a pretty penny if you want to get high-HP though. I also don't think they are as "track-worthy" out of the box.

When I was looking for my 951, I was also looking for an E30 M3 or an early 911. I also checked out one E36 M3. I had previously owned a E36 325is so I was very familiar with the cars. I think the E36 M3 felt too similar to the 325is I had. The differences between the cars are not significant beyond the engine.

The 951 won out over the E30 M3 due to even higher maintenance costs for the E30 and a good example was tougher to find (too many fell into the wrong hands). They are also more expensive.

PM Eclou, I think he still has both his modded E36 and his modded 951. I think he likes the 951 better.

Max

macnewma

Yeah, you can boost an E36, but for the same amount of money and hassle, I have a feeling you could get significantly more power out of a 951.

Basically, kept stock, and as a full-time daily driver, the E36 M3 wins. With slight mods, and more track duty, the 951 wins. Either way, they are great cars. Neither is a "wrong" choice.

Max

Fishey

The E36m3 is nice but lacks the feel of the 944..

However you can make more power out of the E36m3 when you boost it unless you boost a S2 engine.. The 951 has its limits (and they are pretty low in comparison to many other cars) However if you want to reach 300whp-400whp the 951 will be cheaper to get into that range. However how many 944t's are really above this range? Not many I think I can count them on one hand...

rage2

I can tell all the E36 M3 haters have never driven the car .

Honestly, I can say it's a much better car than the 951. It's got 10 years of suspension technology and refinement on our cars. Here's my buddy's E36 supercharged M3 Convertible that I tuned:

http://www.rage2.com/project01.htm

In his 3700lb convertible, it's slower than my 2.8L 951 on pump gas. With that motor in a Coupe though, it would be pretty much even. At the track, you realize why BMW's call themselves the ultimate driving machine. It's shocking how such a softly sprung car can handle so well.

We've sunk similar amounts of money into our cars, and I personally would prefer the E36 M3 if I had to do it all over again. It handles better, rides better, it's a better car. Your friend made the right choice IMO.

rage2

And what kind of feel is that?
Huh??? What limits are you talking about??? I've taken my 2.5L 951 to 460whp on a stock block. We found the limit of the stock cast pistons on the M3's at under 400whp.
Yes, but to get the same drivability of a M3 with similar power, you're spending a LOT more money.

Matt H

Rage - you got it right. I was going to ask the same questions. To make a reliable 400HP in an E36 you might spend 20K
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macnewma

Right, that is why I said, mildly modded 951 vs. a boosted, but mildly, E36M3 and the 951 would win. The cost to get the mild mod E36M3 to compete with the mild mod 951 is far greater.

When you get to the level of Rage2's beast, IMO all bets are off. Take any decent car and you can make it a beast (not easily though).

IMO, as a former E36 non-M owner and I have driven a number of E36M3s, the M3 is more docile and not as connected. The steering is lighter although great. I am certainly not "hating" the M3.

Basically, it amounts to what your wants are out of the car. Does your friend just prefer the look? They are radically different in appearance.

Max

DDP

Yeah I understand what you guys are saying. I have driven one and that is why I brought this up. I have fallen in love with boost and could never go back. Boosting an e36 is not easy. To do it correctly is to rebuild the entire engine for it. I love the tighter heavier steering the 951 has and the appearance is so much sweeter on the 951. The M3 looks like a regular car to me...with a wing. It doesn't look bad in any way, but just not as good as the 951. I dont know, hes gunna get what he wants so if he gets the e36...he gunna want more power. And there arent too many ways to get them over 300whp with bolt on like the 951. And they are a heavier car too. Like Rage said 3700lbs for the cabrio is ridic. Anyways, if I were going to leave the 951, I think I could only go to a 3rd gen RX-7...go ahead flame me...

Legoland951

I believe the stock 951 is around 32 to 3400 pounds so if we compare a 944S2 cabriolet, its probably not much lighter than the M3

Graufuchs

My GF is looking for a 3 series in white convertable...after looking through prices and playing with the idea of an M3(not for her) its a smart idea, they look great, they are quick and ready to track...not as great looking as a 951 or as much as a drivers car but Id put them on similiar podiums...Both great cars. It may be an idea in afew years...first its house time...be practical..kinda..

Russian Rocket

couldn't agree more. E36 M3 is a better car in every aspect. Now, if you want to get really crazy S54 Mcoupe will stomp on nearly everything on the track
Vlad.

joseph mitro

i bought my M3 with 91K miles, have tracked it twice and autocrossed it twice in five months, and it has been PERFECT. not one problem. it's got more power and better acceleration than a stock 951, the handling is on par if not better, the styling is several years newer and the maintenance has been a non-issue. plus parts are cheaper than those for porsche.

i love my 944S and can't wait for it to be fixed. i even loved my old 951, but that car sucked out $12,000 of my wallet in 2 1/2 years in maintenance and repairs. my M3 is absolutely perfect, and in my opinion is the better choice for your friend. they are so easy to mod. a lot of people on the M3 forums are getting 240-260 wheel HP with NO forced induction. that's comparable to a mildly modded 951. The handling of my M3 on the track is stupendous, even with stock suspension and horrible tires. the 944 series handles great, too, but like rage said, the technology is newer.

now if you want maximum performance, you're going to spend a lot on forced induction, but you'll do the same with a 951. in the M3, you've got a 3.2 L 24valve engine to start with as opposed to a 2.5 L 8valve. it's all around a better engine in my opinion.

but then, as my sig says, the M3 is my temporary track car until the 944S is rebuilt and stripped with stiff springs and race seats

oh, by the way.....i only paid $15,000 for it. one owner...no body damage or dings. blah, blah, blah.....

pcarfan944

[QUOTE=joseph mitro]
now if you want maximum performance, you're going to spend a lot on forced induction, but you'll do the same with a 951. in the M3, you've got a 3.2 L 24valve engine to start with as opposed to a 2.5 L 8valve. it's all around a better engine in my opinion.
QUOTE]

Of course it is. My 944 would need 4,500 RPM just to match the acceleration of my E24 lugging around at 2,000 RPM. The 2.5L is a great engine if you keep it above 4k, but down below that it's embarrassing. Kudos to BMW and their straight six, it's got bags of torque from just over idle but it will soar up to redline with a bone chilling mechanical roar. From what I hear the new M3 CSL is one of the most exciting cars they've ever made, too bad you can only have it with the paddles. Over all, I believe Porsche has better build quality and reliability over BMW. In addition Porsche has the better badge, probably holds its value better and has those damn good looks.

rage2

A little off topic... wonder if we can stuff that 3.2L I6 into our 944's . The motor is physically smaller by quite a bit! Here's a pic of my 2.8L 951 block sitting beside the 3.2L I6 M3 block.