tifosiman

Apparently you didn't see my smiley.

EDIT: Post edited at request of moderator.

tifosiman

Post edited at request of moderator.

M758

Ok Ok...
Some real number on 2.5L cars.

Remember Skip's got 2.7L motor.

944-spec guys are always in search of hp. With 30+ guys looking for 2.5L NA hp we a little knowledge.

Firstly. MSDS header...
Well not real proof that it is any improvement over the stock tubular headers. I have some dyno tests and the one car with an MSDS header does not have any power gains over non-MSDS header cars. On racer had a Bursch 4 into 1 header and it was crap. Broke many times and provided LESS hp than a stock tube header.

Chips are worth 2-3 hp. Noticable at the race track, but I would never see that on the street. Cone filters are worthless. I in fact run a stock air box and PAPER air filter. I have never had an issue with power. Some cars do have MSD ignition and wire and stuff... again no power gains sufficient to concern me.

It is my personall opinion that cat removal is important for a 944-spec car. It is one of the few thing that free's up hp. Muffer, backpressure oy even pipe diameter are irrellevant. I racer dyno tested open pipe from fwd cat weld (no pipe at all) vs stock 2.25" diameter test pipe and stock muffler. No measureable power change.

Link to 944-spec dyno charts

pete944

Tifo & Fishey
Does this stuff really need to be in this thread?
If you guys don't mind, could you both delete that stuff and talk this out in private?
Thanks.

joseph mitro

yea, it's unfair. i don't have anyone here in oklahoma to bash.

thanks for the replies, guys. i guess the headers are out the window. i do have a test pipe that doesn't fit, but i'll take out the cat of my current exhaust and use that. along with a chip, maybe that will get me close to 200 crank hp on the S. that wouldn't be too bad, if i can lose some weight and get close to 2600 pounds with all steel body panels

M758

You can get well below 2600 with steel body panels.

My spec car runs 2625 lbs with a roll cage me in the car and about 60lbs of ballast.

I figure the car is under 2400 lbs with out me or ballast.

Only weight reduction was from uneeded items. I have not spend a dime on light weight replacement parts.

Geo

OK, first of all we are comparing an 8v engine to what may be produced in a 16v engine.

Second, Jon Milledge has done extensive header testing and can sell you one that does indeed make power. He's working on 944S development since the car has now been classified in SCCA ITS and several people are building them. All of Jon's recommendations are based on extensive dyno testing. He knows what works and what doesn't. Don't expect it to be cheap, but he'll tell you exactly what will do what.

joseph mitro

wow, very impressive!! i figure my weight reduction will come from:

no A/C
no cruise control
no radio/ CD player/ speakers, or wiring
no rear wiper
no significant carpeting
no spare tire
no back seat
lightweight racing seats x2
no windshield washer system
fiberglass rear bumper (for looks and weight)

finally, the sunroof has some heft, but removing that means welding in a steel plate. i figure that will come at a later time.

Geo

You may want to keep that for when you are on the track in the rain.

I'll bet a steel plate will weigh about as much or more.

M758

Joe...
Just for compairson I still have funtiioning power windows in my race car. My sunroof is in place, but all the movement mechanism is gone and reaplced with custom fixed latches.

I have zero carpet and removed all the heat shielding between the engine and firewall.

M758

I agree with Geo about Milledge. He can get you power, but you WILL be paying for it. So far no spec car has gone with a milledge set-up for anything. The ITS classification of the 16v car will mean a little more development for 16v specific upgrades. I just don't expect them to be cheap.

Geo in general feels there is some hp out there for the 944 (even 8v) cars, but I think we both would agree there is little "cheap" hp out there. If you want it you need to be ready to spend some money.

joseph mitro

hmmm, wow, some great tips on here. thanks guys!!

Geo

That is a fair statement.

That said, if there were easy horsepower to be had, I believe all the kids would be doing it, making the additional extra hp the other kids don't have also expensive.

For a racer, I would recommend Jon's ITS organizer. He provides some good information in there. It's geared to ITS, but I think the Cup and Spec guys could make use of the info.

When I get my car on the track initially, it won't have Milledge tricks, but I plan on some for next year.

Geo

Mine will as well. Considering the slight weight difference between the manual and power windows, I decided to keep the power ones for convenience.

Same here except mine is not fixed in place yet since I'm still working on it. But, I take it out all the time and it's not all that heavy.

Now that heat shielding was surprisingly heavy. I was going to leave it in place but decided not to. When I pulled it out I couldn't believe how much it weighed.

joseph mitro

so who is jon and where can i find this ITS info? if i can enter SCCA racing, this may be a good option here in OK.

also, any change in engine temp or cabin temp with the heat shielding removed? and what kind of permanent latches are you using for the sunroof?