Blown oil pan gasket!!!
08-23-2004 | 10:39 PM
#16
Must be something about Atlanta weather (er, Powder Springs).... I am in the middle of my 4th pan gasket right now.. third in 4 months. The first time, the gasket held allright. Then a gas station had to go and take the fun out of my car.
I dont care for owning a 944 on jack stands, so I am definitely going to install this gasket with Danno's nuclear-bombproof procedure using weatherstripping adhesive:
==================
One of the hardest parts is to ensure that the mating surfaces stay perfect clean at all times when installing he oil-pan gasket. Oil tend to drop down from the block and sit on the gasket surface. So you have to wipe it down with acetone and reach up into the block as far as possible.
Then you also have to scrape off all remnants of the old gasket with a razor blade on both surfaces. WIpe down again with acetone. Wipe off the oil-pick up tube as well.
When you're installing, put the gasket on the pan first with a couple of bolts through the middle (hold bolts on with duct tape). Make sure you do not touch the gasket to ANYTHING when installing it. Trick to getting the baffle past the pickup tube is to hold the pan angled down on the driver's side, about 40-50 degrees. Move it up on the passenger side of the car such that the top of the pan is about 0.5" lower than the block. Slide the pan sideways until it's underneath the block, the pickup will go into the baffle. Then raise the driver's side into position underneath the block. Install two center bolts to hold the pan in place. Then gently install the rest of the bolts and torque in 4-5 sequences (3 times is too quick).
If there's a crankcase pressure problem, it will definitely blow out the rear main seal well before a properly-installed oil-pan can blow. On my last engine with three sets of shattered rings, tonnes of blow-by with 70psi compression on three cylinders, the oil-pan gasket was nice and tight (I got it right the 2nd time).
My latest engine which was delivered less than 1-week before the start of this year's OTC, also had a tight oil-pan gasket. With a mis-aligned oil-pressure relief-valve, I had over 90psi of oil pressure which blew out the rear main seal; the pan gasket held as well.
In Ahmet's case, the issue is a lack of a tight and even seal between pan, gasket and block. Then pressure from the oil on the inside being slung around by the crank pushes the gasket out. The earlier problem were caused by the use of silicon sealant, which expands and gets slippery when contacted by oil (you can push the gasket in and out by hand). From reading all of his previous posts on the problem, I can surmize that his problem is due to the tightening sequence:
"Gasket comes out from a different spot each time. As I follow the first torque sequence, I can see that the gasket will be a milimeter or two out at a spot. This is the spot that ends up working it's way completely out. "
This is the critical clue here; that you are rushing through the tightening sequence. Here's my recommend procedure with important revised steps highlighted (you will need a jackhammer to remove the oil-pan gasket):
get 1/4" drive 10mm socket with built-in universal joint, 6" and 3" extensions in 1/4" drive, 1/4"-drive torque wrench, 3M Fastak weatherstripping adhesive (elephant-snot #08011, #08014, #08033 or #08034)
remove pan, gasket and all traces of previous sealants.
wipe down all mating surfaces on block, gasket and pan with acetone.
repeat step #2 until mating surfaces are dull, there should be no shiny reflections.
measure thickness of oil-pan gasket and its internal spacer-washers.
apply thin even layer (0.20-0.25mm) of elephant-snot to pan surface and bottom of oil-pan gasket (follow instructions on tube).
apply thin even layer of elephant-snot to bottom of engine.
apply thick wet layer (0.50-0.75mm) of elephant-snot to top of pan surface
CAREFULLY lay down pan-gasket onto oil-pan mating surface, try to lay it down perfectly vertically with no sliding around necessary.
poke though 4 of the short bolts on the sides to keep the pan-gasket centered over the pan (hold bolt heads in place with duct tape).
poke a bolt through each of the bolt holes in the gasket and the pan to make sure they area aligned.
apply thick wet layer (0.50-0.75mm) of elephant-snot to top of pan-gasket surface
install oil-pan: position oil-pan below engine and to the left (driver side) about 6". Tilt pan at 45-degrees downwards on the right side. Lift up and slide to the right to clear the oil-pickup tube past the baffle. When pan is centered under engine, raise right side to pan is even with block. The four bolts you taped to the pan should line up with the holes in the block.
install bolts #1 & #2 about 5mm into the block to hold pan in place. Remove duct tape and turn in the other four bolts about 5mm. Install rest of bolts about 5mm.
BOLT-TIGHTENING SEQUENCE WILL TAKE FIVE STEPS
(to avoid squeezing out oil-pan in any one spot prematurely)
HAND-TIGHTEN in TWO PASSES (no ratchet) all the pan bolts using the 10mm universal-socket and extensions so that the gasket is barely in contact with the block. Use the tightening sequence in the book. Then verify that the thickness of the pan gasket is still the same as the uncompressed thickness.
straighten out a metal coat-hanger and bend a 1/4" section at the tip 90-degrees. Use this to verify that the semi-circular section at the front & rear is installed into the pan and not caught up on the edge.
make a THIRD PASS using the 1/4" torque-wrench to 0.5 lb•ft. This should compress the gasket NO MORE than 0.5mm (verify with ruler). This will squeeze out the elephant-snot in little droplets all around the oil-pan.
wait OVERNIGHT (6-hours minimum) to allow the sealant to dry
make a FOURTH PASS over the pan-bolts with the 1/4" torque-wrench to 3 lb•ft. Verify that the oil-pan is squeezed evenly all around. It should be at the thickness of the internal spacer-washer.
make a FIFTH PASS over the pan-bolts to 6 lb•ft.
With this procedure, you should be able to drop a 1/4-stick of dynamite down the oil-filler tube and blow out EVERY single seal on the engine, including the rings and the pan-gasket will hold!
===================================
Hope this helps. Let me know if you need a hand...
-Robert Combier
I dont care for owning a 944 on jack stands, so I am definitely going to install this gasket with Danno's nuclear-bombproof procedure using weatherstripping adhesive:
==================
One of the hardest parts is to ensure that the mating surfaces stay perfect clean at all times when installing he oil-pan gasket. Oil tend to drop down from the block and sit on the gasket surface. So you have to wipe it down with acetone and reach up into the block as far as possible.
Then you also have to scrape off all remnants of the old gasket with a razor blade on both surfaces. WIpe down again with acetone. Wipe off the oil-pick up tube as well.
When you're installing, put the gasket on the pan first with a couple of bolts through the middle (hold bolts on with duct tape). Make sure you do not touch the gasket to ANYTHING when installing it. Trick to getting the baffle past the pickup tube is to hold the pan angled down on the driver's side, about 40-50 degrees. Move it up on the passenger side of the car such that the top of the pan is about 0.5" lower than the block. Slide the pan sideways until it's underneath the block, the pickup will go into the baffle. Then raise the driver's side into position underneath the block. Install two center bolts to hold the pan in place. Then gently install the rest of the bolts and torque in 4-5 sequences (3 times is too quick).
If there's a crankcase pressure problem, it will definitely blow out the rear main seal well before a properly-installed oil-pan can blow. On my last engine with three sets of shattered rings, tonnes of blow-by with 70psi compression on three cylinders, the oil-pan gasket was nice and tight (I got it right the 2nd time).
My latest engine which was delivered less than 1-week before the start of this year's OTC, also had a tight oil-pan gasket. With a mis-aligned oil-pressure relief-valve, I had over 90psi of oil pressure which blew out the rear main seal; the pan gasket held as well.
In Ahmet's case, the issue is a lack of a tight and even seal between pan, gasket and block. Then pressure from the oil on the inside being slung around by the crank pushes the gasket out. The earlier problem were caused by the use of silicon sealant, which expands and gets slippery when contacted by oil (you can push the gasket in and out by hand). From reading all of his previous posts on the problem, I can surmize that his problem is due to the tightening sequence:
"Gasket comes out from a different spot each time. As I follow the first torque sequence, I can see that the gasket will be a milimeter or two out at a spot. This is the spot that ends up working it's way completely out. "
This is the critical clue here; that you are rushing through the tightening sequence. Here's my recommend procedure with important revised steps highlighted (you will need a jackhammer to remove the oil-pan gasket):
get 1/4" drive 10mm socket with built-in universal joint, 6" and 3" extensions in 1/4" drive, 1/4"-drive torque wrench, 3M Fastak weatherstripping adhesive (elephant-snot #08011, #08014, #08033 or #08034)
remove pan, gasket and all traces of previous sealants.
wipe down all mating surfaces on block, gasket and pan with acetone.
repeat step #2 until mating surfaces are dull, there should be no shiny reflections.
measure thickness of oil-pan gasket and its internal spacer-washers.
apply thin even layer (0.20-0.25mm) of elephant-snot to pan surface and bottom of oil-pan gasket (follow instructions on tube).
apply thin even layer of elephant-snot to bottom of engine.
apply thick wet layer (0.50-0.75mm) of elephant-snot to top of pan surface
CAREFULLY lay down pan-gasket onto oil-pan mating surface, try to lay it down perfectly vertically with no sliding around necessary.
poke though 4 of the short bolts on the sides to keep the pan-gasket centered over the pan (hold bolt heads in place with duct tape).
poke a bolt through each of the bolt holes in the gasket and the pan to make sure they area aligned.
apply thick wet layer (0.50-0.75mm) of elephant-snot to top of pan-gasket surface
install oil-pan: position oil-pan below engine and to the left (driver side) about 6". Tilt pan at 45-degrees downwards on the right side. Lift up and slide to the right to clear the oil-pickup tube past the baffle. When pan is centered under engine, raise right side to pan is even with block. The four bolts you taped to the pan should line up with the holes in the block.
install bolts #1 & #2 about 5mm into the block to hold pan in place. Remove duct tape and turn in the other four bolts about 5mm. Install rest of bolts about 5mm.
BOLT-TIGHTENING SEQUENCE WILL TAKE FIVE STEPS
(to avoid squeezing out oil-pan in any one spot prematurely)
HAND-TIGHTEN in TWO PASSES (no ratchet) all the pan bolts using the 10mm universal-socket and extensions so that the gasket is barely in contact with the block. Use the tightening sequence in the book. Then verify that the thickness of the pan gasket is still the same as the uncompressed thickness.
straighten out a metal coat-hanger and bend a 1/4" section at the tip 90-degrees. Use this to verify that the semi-circular section at the front & rear is installed into the pan and not caught up on the edge.
make a THIRD PASS using the 1/4" torque-wrench to 0.5 lb•ft. This should compress the gasket NO MORE than 0.5mm (verify with ruler). This will squeeze out the elephant-snot in little droplets all around the oil-pan.
wait OVERNIGHT (6-hours minimum) to allow the sealant to dry
make a FOURTH PASS over the pan-bolts with the 1/4" torque-wrench to 3 lb•ft. Verify that the oil-pan is squeezed evenly all around. It should be at the thickness of the internal spacer-washer.
make a FIFTH PASS over the pan-bolts to 6 lb•ft.
With this procedure, you should be able to drop a 1/4-stick of dynamite down the oil-filler tube and blow out EVERY single seal on the engine, including the rings and the pan-gasket will hold!
===================================
Hope this helps. Let me know if you need a hand...
-Robert Combier
08-23-2004 | 11:50 PM
#17
Banned
Danno you beat me to it - I was going to quote your wisdom again 
The sealant at the corners is pretty critical too and AFAIK there IS a major difference between aftermarket & original when it comes to these; just what I've been told, but it was enough for me to order an original one since I do NOT want to do the oil pan gasket more than once. It looks like the worst thing I'll attempt on this car.
The sealant at the corners is pretty critical too and AFAIK there IS a major difference between aftermarket & original when it comes to these; just what I've been told, but it was enough for me to order an original one since I do NOT want to do the oil pan gasket more than once. It looks like the worst thing I'll attempt on this car.
08-24-2004 | 12:03 AM
#18
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,815
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From: Louisville, Ky/Altanta, GA (Georgia Tech)
The oil pan gasket was easy for me, but the engine is out of the car, I can see why it would be a serious pain for someone who were to leave the engine in the car. Means having to disconnect the steering rack and crossmember etc.
Good luck w/ the project, just think how good it will feel to have another peice of mind.
Good luck w/ the project, just think how good it will feel to have another peice of mind.
08-24-2004 | 12:20 AM
#19
Hey danno, i have never seen anyone else install a pan like that, i have been doing it for years on all cars i do a pan on, i learned on a full size dodge truck, you couldnt take the cross memeber out in that so you had to work over it, so on the 4th time that is what i did, it never leaked after that.
Mark
Mark
