TurboTim

It depends on the blower you are using.Unfortunately, the one we use is the most expensive unit on the market with a retail price of something like $2550.The wheels is cnc'd out of a solid billet.One of the most impressive pieces I have ever seen.The good news is that it is much smaller unit which may allow us to keep the A/C on future kits.

BruceWard

Tim,

I think I remember you posting that you would not be producing kits that allowed keeping the AC until you had sold more AC removing kits.

I am glad to hear you may be reconsidering that customer unfriendly position!

savage944

slowazzporsche -- let me know when you finish the design. I would love to see what you have done.

When I get around to repairing my car, I will be showing off my the supercharger setup I am using my car. Its based on the Mercedes Unit with a lot of modification and is rather special. First people to see it will proably be anyone who ends up helping me repair the car.

It will be using a MAF conversion, along with late model DME w/chip from guru racing and larger injectors. Yea thats right... stock late model dme and no additional injectors, just a MAF conversion and the right fuel map and replacement injectors.

Right now its setup using to additional injectors and a manifold pressure switch, soon as it sees boost (1psi+) they run at full duty cycle, very rich, but very effective. Will be better when I finish the work. The supercharger setup has kept me away form finishing the fixed light conversion.

What I want to see is a supercharger kit that is cheap and allows you to source your own unit, like the mercedes or other eatons. They are very cheap to get used and can be ported! The fuel management upgrades would likly be what brings the price up. But I don't see why you would need to spend more than 2500-3k for a kit with everything, even less if you just wanted an install kit and you source your own SC and fuel stuff. Since everyone talks about doing your own thing.

How about a kit under 1k that includes everything except the supercharger. Pipes, mounts, Intercooler, etc... you just go get a the model supercharger you need for a few hundred and install it. Maybe 1.5K or so for a kit that also includes the custom chip, injectors and MAF conversion. Just add SC. If you are building it all yourself you could proably supercharge the car for under 1500. That of course meaning you buy mostly new stuff and do the install yourself.

Of course if you buy a new supercharger then you see the cost go up, but from what I have seen at junk yards and on ebay you can get the Mercedes units for 200 or less and the same of the M90, I have seen the M90 go for 100-150. Only reasong the mercedes unit cost more is "mercedes" other wise they would be cheaper I am sure.

I would like to see someone selling something anyone can install in a few hours. Something that retains the A/C and looks factory clean. Low boost and you dont need a IC, say 5 PSI up to 7, go above that and you need a Small IC....

Butler

I know I would be very interested in a supercharger for a 944, but keeping the A/C would be nice. There are a lot of na guys out there looking for more power.

Cheers,

Chad

early85944

My supercharger kit is for sale on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ADME:B:LC:MT:1
Someone please buy it I need the money.

toby bedford

You might be interested in the following web site for the DIY approach. They use refurbished Paxtons and McCulloughs.

http://gatorsuperchargers.net/

Jack '84 928s

Tony those look like garret turbos made into superchargers?

savage944

Actually the turbos on the Gatorsupercharger site, range across all makes and models. They are converted to Belt Drive. Depending on the boost and CFM required per application, their are a lot of possibilities. The Website owner is also an author. Dick sells a lot of books for the DIYer on Ebay and on the site. Some really great stuff on studebakers and AMC cars and motorsl let alone supercharging and turbocharging in general. I have used a lot of his ideas and approaches on various projects over the years. If you don't think you can run high boost with a carb' boy are you ever wrong. Not only can you, but the a turbo/supercharged Carb design and setup tends to be more thermally efficient and by nature runs a little cooler.

He has probably forgotten more about turbo and supercharging then most people will ever learn. Does amazing things with draw thru and blow thru carbs.

Very very out of the box. But the BD -turbos are amazing, any rpm and boost level can be done. Their are some guys listed on the site as well who do the conversions either on your turbo or they can supply one. They need to know application, desired boost levels, etc... but they are very knowledgable. Gerry Drummond and Jim Glenn

Basically you remove the exhaust side of the turbo, using a long shaft and bearings you set up the belt drive. You can also use a countershaft as needed.

Their are a lot of books and a lot of sources on the net for doing your own thing when it comes to boost. I still believe someone needs to build a kit thats affordable for the average 944 owner.

Seems to me a lot of things for the 944, get swallowed up in the whole porsche name = $$$. Just crazy. I have nothing against people making a profit and a living, but their is a difference between a living and a killing. Then their is the other side of the coin = supply and demand. Sure it takes time and money to put something together, test it, etc... but ultimately the product and parts are not that expensive to acquire or make, depending on method and the parts chosen. The most expensive supercharger on the market, isn't necessarily the best. Especially not when you are talking low boost. Only a few superchargers can produce more than 15 PSI. Very few people run more than 7 PSI with a supercharger and those that do, usually don't go above 10-12.

I say again, the Eaton offers a lot of different models... even Huntley Racing used the Eaton, not that you can consider it a raving endorsement, only that they used one in their application. Eaton Superchargers are the Largest OEM equipment supplier of superchargers. They must be getting something right. If you aren't satisfied with an Eaton, step up to a manga charger, basically the Uber version of the Eatons.

GoRideSno

Hacker,
IIRC Huntley used the Eaton improved roots type blowers on his 944 systems and atempted to do so on his 928 kits too. While the Eaton improved roots type blower is a fine supercharger, the Twin-Screw offers more potential power gain. It is also about 45% more expensive than the eaton types due to the complex mfg techniques needed to make it. Besides some of the Merc AMG cars, McClaren SLR and Ford GT there is only 1 other car that comes oem with a Twin-Screw, the Mazda Milenia. It uses a very small IHI Twin-Screw. You can get one used for about $1300.00. What I am geting at is that you can't buy a cheap used twin-screw. You can buy the eaton type blowers for $200-$400 any day on e-bay though.

This is a timely thread I've been thinking of doing a 944 setup too. I have a friend wiht an 85.5 that wants one. I'would offer it in the same way I offer the 928 systems, as a lower cost enthusiast kit or as a low cost complete kit.

Andy K

GoRideSno

I was just reading through this thread some more.

Savage944,
This is exactly what I do for the 928. I offer all the parts needed to Install a Jaguar/Eatom M112. People can then get the SC of e-bay or wherever for as little as $200. I'll be dynoing a system on my car Friday that could be done very complete with new larger injectors a rising rate boost referenced regulator and an air ratio meter for less than $3500 for the 928.
I also offer an Intercooled Twin-Screw system.

The 944 could be lots of fun too....


Andy K

savage944

Andy K,

I checked out your site, very nice. I like the EATON M112, I have a 5th Generation with the teflon coated rotors. If I ever get another V8, I am all set. But for now I don't have a car to put it on, but its nice all black... very cool.

So get with building the 944 kits already.

As for the Eaton M90 and Mercedes M62, even the GM M62, they are very very easy to get as you mentioned. The question is when will you have the kit complete? I hope you intend to do it. But remember, keep the A/C.

Yes Huntley used the 2nd, then 3rd Generation M90 and a custom manifold. The kit was way over priced, nice design, but expensive for what you got. I wasn't impressed at all.

I envision modifications to a stock manifold, in fact, customers could send in their manifolds as cores. Modify them to hold the Eaton, run a single belt for the SC, ALT and A/C with a single tensioner mounted by the SC to keep it all stable. Very nice.

Custom plenum, with a full time setup. The setup becomes more complicated as you know, if you want a part time setup, like the mercedes units. With having to bypass the Supercharger when not on boost. In such a case you leave the stock manifold intact and maybe just mount the unit to feed a "Y" junction, with a by pass valve. These are the kinds of things that need to be supplied.

One down side to a A/C - Clutch pulley is the size and complications it brings, it does limit the maximum boost you can generate. After all pulley size is what determines the boost numbers...

I have seen numbers on the Eaton Mercedes M62, with a full race porting of the housing, and it only showed a delta rise at 5 psi is only 40 to 50 degrees, which is very efficient. If the Eaton isn't ported, those numbers are a lot higher.

Those numbers are way better than a turbo at low boost numbers and your are talking insane torque, something the turbo fails to provide at idle. AS far as CFM, from what I have seen you are talking 550 CFM with a full port, more than enough for the 944 at 6500 RPM, the engine only needs around 440 CFM if I remember correctly.

The M62 is displacing 1 (one) liter per revolution and the M90 is displacing 1.5 Liters per rev. I know the twin screw is more efficient, but with porting the Eaton is hard to beat with its cost. Porting is something the average user could do them self if they have a dremel and know what to do.

SO GO BUILD/FABRICATE THE MOUNTS AND EVERYTHING for us... 5 PSI would be perfect on an S/S2 or 968, on the NA you can go a lot higher, 8,10 even 12. Of course above 7 you might want to consider a small intercooler. But 10 -12 PSI minimal heat and I don't have to worry about replacing the unit, like you do with the turbo, headers fail, turbo fails, cracks, etc... A turbo is hard to beat for high boost numbers, but up to 12-15 PSI I prefer a Supercharger, beyond that... well thats some serious boost.

Ultimately I believe the supercharger kit and configuration can prove to be the best bang for the buck, first its cheaper even including the supercharger, second it will last longer, third it produces useable boost from idle, last well the sound is pretty cool, like it way better than a turbo.

GoRideSno

Savage,
Looks like you've done some homework on the Eaton SCs. I agree thet they are the very best bang for the buck.
Your Idea about using part of the existing manifold is something I have been considering too. You can buy them for $15-$40 used. I've got 4 sitting here along with 6 superchargers of 4 different types and a bunch of intercooler parts.
A by-pass dosen't have to be complicated. It pretty much just fits in a 1.24" tube going from the charge side to inlet side.

I just talked t my friend about using his 85.5 as a mule. He said it's a go fo it.
Could be fun.

Carl, maybe we could do something like you and Tim are doing?

Andy K

KenC

So, I know it's stupid...The cost to car ratio thing, but what about 8 valve N/A's are any of these available for them ??? or only 16's ?

savage944

KenC, We are talking about units for both the 8v and 16V, plus the higher compression models as well.

I for one am pushing Andy K, to do something for the 944. But if you read the tread you will see their is a lot of options and you can pretty much do you own thing if you wanted. Or wait till someone does an affordable kit that lets you DIY> or go to speed force racing, they already have a complete setup for sale.