Do I need a roll cage?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 291
Likes: 49
From: Buffalo, NY
Do I need a roll cage?
If you were going through the effort to make a car lighter, would you add back the weight of a roll cage in this scenario: I won't be doing any club racing. I may occasionally participate in track day event but realistically not more than than twice a year . The car will have carbon or fiberglass doors so there is a concern about getting t-boned in local traffic. I'm sure it I will see some high speed runs on the highways and rip around back roads with lots of trees.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,813
Likes: 1,181
From: Formerly the DPRK, now seeking political asylum in Oregon
I'm not comfortable on the track without one, but having a roll cage in a street car has some issues...
It makes getting in and out of the car a giant pain in the ***. Also, there's the risk of crushing your skull in a crash if you aren't wearing a helmet
Usually, installing one is the last step of 'improving' a nice street car to be better on the track, until it becomes useless for anything else.
"We're driving down highway 1 to Santa Barbara this weekend!"
"Sweet! You're taking the 944, right?"
"Hell no. We're driving the wife's Camry..."
The doors do weigh a lot, but I might rethink the fiberglass there...
Just my opinion.
It makes getting in and out of the car a giant pain in the ***. Also, there's the risk of crushing your skull in a crash if you aren't wearing a helmet
Usually, installing one is the last step of 'improving' a nice street car to be better on the track, until it becomes useless for anything else.
"We're driving down highway 1 to Santa Barbara this weekend!"
"Sweet! You're taking the 944, right?"
"Hell no. We're driving the wife's Camry..."
The doors do weigh a lot, but I might rethink the fiberglass there...
Just my opinion.
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,974
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From: Poconos PA
I agree with Nowanker. Forget the fiberglass doors. Too much loss of safety. What, are you trying to win your track day? If this car is for the street, don’t do the roll cage. Especially if it’s only for a couple of track days per year. It’s very hard to make a dual purpose car.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,408
Likes: 248
From: Edmonton AB
You can gut the doors to save a lot of weight and retain the impact bar. A roll bar might be what you are looking for as a compromise. My street/track car has a roll bar for harnesses and maybe a touch of added stiffness and rollover protection without having a tube right beside my unhelmeted head on the street. Race cars that are always driven with a helmet have the full cage treatment.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 386
Likes: 38
If you were going through the effort to make a car lighter, would you add back the weight of a roll cage in this scenario: I won't be doing any club racing. I may occasionally participate in track day event but realistically not more than than twice a year . The car will have carbon or fiberglass doors so there is a concern about getting t-boned in local traffic. I'm sure it I will see some high speed runs on the highways and rip around back roads with lots of trees.
Never ride in a car with a cage without a helmet.
Last edited by AkechiMotors; Mar 20, 2025 at 09:39 PM.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 1,854
Likes: 429
From: Central MD & Southern WI - 89 S2 Megasquirt + Variocam
I think its important to understand the terminology between "cage" and "roll bar", "half cage" etc.
Rollbar/"half cage" - usually just a set of bars situated behind the drivers seat that a 4 point harness can attach to. They come in a variety of configurations, but all share this same function and are situated in the back half of the car. It provides added levels of safety (rollover protection and ability to attach a harness) and stiffness. These are suitable for street or track as long as the bars themselves come nowhere near the occupants head. These are common on HPDE/track days and autocross cars.
A "roll cage" usually refers to a full on race cage which not only includes the items listed above, but bars that run the length of the doors and along the headliner. As others have said, these can be dangerous because in an accident you can hit your head on them. People will sometimes wrap foam around them but its just not advisable to run a cage on any car you will drive without a helmet.
Rollbar/"half cage" - usually just a set of bars situated behind the drivers seat that a 4 point harness can attach to. They come in a variety of configurations, but all share this same function and are situated in the back half of the car. It provides added levels of safety (rollover protection and ability to attach a harness) and stiffness. These are suitable for street or track as long as the bars themselves come nowhere near the occupants head. These are common on HPDE/track days and autocross cars.
A "roll cage" usually refers to a full on race cage which not only includes the items listed above, but bars that run the length of the doors and along the headliner. As others have said, these can be dangerous because in an accident you can hit your head on them. People will sometimes wrap foam around them but its just not advisable to run a cage on any car you will drive without a helmet.
Last edited by walfreyydo; Mar 21, 2025 at 08:29 AM.
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Three Wheelin'
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,813
Likes: 1,181
From: Formerly the DPRK, now seeking political asylum in Oregon
Another question is what will be the real purpose of the car?
If the goal is max performance though absolute minimum weight, with gutted interior, no undercoat, no HVAC or insulation... you'll have a car that you won't want to drive on the street anyway. Ever again.
Trust me.
If the goal is just to trim some of the heft out of it, don't lose too many of the 'comforts'.
Just my experience...
If the goal is max performance though absolute minimum weight, with gutted interior, no undercoat, no HVAC or insulation... you'll have a car that you won't want to drive on the street anyway. Ever again.
Trust me.
If the goal is just to trim some of the heft out of it, don't lose too many of the 'comforts'.
Just my experience...
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Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 291
Likes: 49
From: Buffalo, NY
All good input thank you. I certainly don't want to bang my head on anything, although I do like the idea of having just the roll bar portion. @JustinL I have not had a door apart before, can the impact bar be put into lightweight doors? @Nowanker In a perfect world I would have minimal road noise while still being lightweight and powerful but I know compromises have to be made.
Last edited by 944 timbo; Mar 21, 2025 at 09:48 PM.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,813
Likes: 1,181
From: Formerly the DPRK, now seeking political asylum in Oregon
The door bar is tied to the steel edges on the hinge side and latch side. Stiffens the whole door...
Don't think a 'glass door would have the strength to make it effective.
All of my track friends and I slid down the same slope.
We had a really nice street sports car, and took it to the track.
And immediately started to make it better!
They all spiraled down the same hole... getting faster and faster, but less and less enjoyable on the street.
The inevitable final straw was the addition of a cage and race seat(s). After becoming pretty much useless for anything else, they were turned into just racecars.
We could have just skipped all those expensive middle steps...
Don't think a 'glass door would have the strength to make it effective.
All of my track friends and I slid down the same slope.
We had a really nice street sports car, and took it to the track.
And immediately started to make it better!
They all spiraled down the same hole... getting faster and faster, but less and less enjoyable on the street.
The inevitable final straw was the addition of a cage and race seat(s). After becoming pretty much useless for anything else, they were turned into just racecars.
We could have just skipped all those expensive middle steps...
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,813
Likes: 1,181
From: Formerly the DPRK, now seeking political asylum in Oregon
They're also bonded to the door skin, and in the process of removing his, one of my friends trashed his doors.
I've gone all out to save weight, and the factory doors are heavy,
But even with a cage, I still run them. I don't mind the extra protection...
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,584
Likes: 637
From: Maryland
If you were going through the effort to make a car lighter, would you add back the weight of a roll cage in this scenario: I won't be doing any club racing. I may occasionally participate in track day event but realistically not more than than twice a year . The car will have carbon or fiberglass doors so there is a concern about getting t-boned in local traffic. I'm sure it I will see some high speed runs on the highways and rip around back roads with lots of trees.
All good input thank you. I certainly don't want to bang my head on anything, although I do like the idea of having just the roll bar portion. @JustinL I have not had a door apart before, can the impact bar be put into lightweight doors? @Nowanker In a perfect world I would have minimal road noise while still being lightweight and powerful but I know compromises have to be made.
Not a a fan of a roll cage in a street car under any circumstance.
A roll bar is a reasonable compromise, I have a factory roll bar in my HPDE car that gets driven often on the street including to/from the track, see photo in my signature.
My 1981 924 is a lightweight car from the factory including M471 suspension. It has manual steering, manual brakes, manual sunroof and crank windows from the factory.
It’s official weight is about 2623 lbs.
Recaro SE sport seats were added by a PO. When I find a set of 1981/84 factory sport seats I may replace them, still undecided because the Recaro’s work better with the Weltmeister, see below.
Your car your decision, I decided to add a Weltmeister Harness Bar. This is designed to have the harness attached to the bar as opposed to a harness guided bar. IMHO perfect for Autocross and Skidpad but I would never trust it on the track. I also kept the three point seat belts for the street.
Good luck with your decision.
Random photo of the Weltmeister Harness Bar
Last edited by Patrick3000; Apr 9, 2025 at 11:29 AM.