Chris_924s

Exactly.

patwilliamsracing

I had jovial conversation with Ken C. True, my wife "the receptionist" told him we do not usually work on 944s. She had seen me decline to work on a couple of the most beat cars we've ever seen. She did, however, offer to let Ken speak to me and I got on the phone immediately. I spend 10 minutes, because I care, with this person I don't know basically just to see if he wants to fix the car right. All shop owners have to do this, because the worst nightmare for the customer and the shop owner is to throw any amount of money towards no good end. This is for his benefit, more than mine. I have seen shops put clutches in 944s that needed an engine because it was a gravy job for them. Our conversation was pleasant, to the point. On his end, he indicated that he understood. I was saying about the owner's in jest, I never used the word hate, but I wanted him to understand how we like to do it. We're interested in the results of the job. He indicated to me that he would bring the car and the conversation ended pleasantly. I am floored by his post on the forum. I am also stunned by the people who are willing to kick and bash someone they don't know. Thank you for those who see what really transpired here. It's much appreciated.

I've worked 18 years trying to do the right things every day with respect to these cars. My labor rate is $80/hr, less than the Ford and Chrysler dealerships and we go by the Mitchell repair manual in cases like this - no matter if you own a 911, 944 or 914, etc. Looking at the labor on that job, it's 9.3 hours. We will do the job for that, as a matter of fact, I thought we were doing the job for Ken. If Ken wants to talk to me about his car again, I will be glad to.

RedlineMan

Hey Pat;

Most of these guys that are so ready to bash you without having a clue what they are talking about will NEVER experience the pain of being screwed over by some moron that they took every pain to see received a thorough and careful repair on their car.

When you live quality in your bones, and bust your *** to be the best you can be, it hurts when you are betrayed. When it hurts, you don't do that thing anymore.

Well Done!
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Might anyone else have experienced a classic case of missunderstanding before? There's two sides to every story. THIS is not the way to solve it. Men solve things face-to-face. Discussions tend to be a lot different then. I think someone is owed at LEAST a second chance!!!

Peckster

I'm sure many 944 owners are apain to deal with compared to 911 owners, because on average they have less money, and many can't afford to maintain one of these cars.

I ran into a similar problem once with a guy who wouldn't work on a old bike for me. Because I knew he was good, I sweet-talked him into it. You probably reinforced his opinion of 944 owners.

Dave E

Uuuhhh, I'm one of those cheap 951 owners! Damn proud too. I had huge sticker shock for repairs, but what pissed me off the most was the tech who says "it will be x dollars to do this repair. I come back when the car is done and the tech says " ok so this and this and this needed to be done while we were in there, (totally understandable now that I've done my own work for the last 5 years) and that will be 2x". After two or three of these occurences, even after telling him to call if the job will run over, so I can secure the funds, I just left the shop and bought the manuals. I can't justify the huge repair bills that are always a surprise. If the job is quoted 1000, I want to pay 1000, if the job doubles for any reason, I want to know that first, not that I won't pay it, but the courtesy of a call is warranted. I can't blame any tech for not wanting to work on 944's, I think they absolutely SUCK to work on, (pulling the engine is absurdly time consuming, IMNSHO) and if wasn't so much fun to drive I would sell mine. I will end up with a 911 someday, if for no other reason than for ease of engine and transmission removal. I may be ranting, but hey, a phone call from the tech is not too much to ask, is it? I am having Scott Gomes do some work for me now, and we spoke at length about this and he is smart enough to provide a range of cost for the short block buildup, and we will be square on scope of work from day one. I find I am like most 944 guys, not enough money to go as fast as we want to, and we want everything done perfectly. If I want that though I realized I had to do the work myself, because I couldn't afford to pay anyone the incredible amount of hours I have put into my car. I think I'm at 3000 hours over the last five years. I also enjoy knowing I have the luxury of time to really do the job right, without worrying about getting paid for the work or making daily quota, and knowing exactly what the car is doing and why, and I could never have learned that if I could afford to pay someone else for all the custom mod's on my car. From a business standpoint, I do run across guys who work hard at their profession and don't have the time to work on their car, and they gladly pay the tech the 85 an hour, because they are making much more than that at their own work, and it makes financial sense for them to do things this way. These guys don't seem to drive 944's much, though, and that is the likely reason for Pat's comments. If I were in his shoes i'd much rather have a customer who doesn't blanch at the sound of a 10k repair bill, and know that I will be gratefully appreciated for a job well done. We 944 guys are the exception to most shops bread and butter, and I don't mind that at all, and I know when to stop pestering the tech's with questions, because they need the time to make some real money. O.K. I'll shut up now!!

Geo

Pat, thanks for posting. You actually sound exactly like you run the kind of shop that most of us would like to find. I understand where you're coming from completely.

Red1

I'll second that. It sounds like Pat knows what he's doing.

I was hanging out at the shop tonight when I saw firsthand an example of the cheap 944 owner. The dude brought it in after it blew a radiator hose. Turns out the water pump is shot. He doesn't have the money to fix it, so he pays them what he has to to clear the work they put into it so far. Then he wants to drive it home! At least the lead mechanic talked him into towing it. Ever the vulture, I went out to assess the guy's frustration level with it (i.e. would he be willing to sell it as-is for cheap), but he hadn't reached that point yet (drat! - I had the checkbook ready!)

Anyway, I guess that was my glimpse into that part of the universe.

Geo

Brian, where were you at tonight?

icat

First off - Pat, please accept a heart felt welcome to Rennlist! Thank you very much for posting. There seems to be quite a few threads out here in 944 land lately that pretty much prove we are a step lower than our 911 brethren - not all of us mind you, but some. No one ever said owning a Porsche was inexpensive. I am still floored by the mentality of some who think they can buy a 944 for under $5000 and then just drive it like it was a Honda Civic or a Toyota Camry. Sorry guys, it don't work that way. These cars will cost more than almost any other car on the road today to maintain. unfortunately, poor service by previous owners have left many with a POS that defines the words "money pit".
I don't make $80 plus dollars an hour, but my company charges more than that to work on a computer. And I assure you I generally don't sweat or get dirty when I pull the hard drive on a computer - but I get as much or more than the mechanic who changes the belts. So why should a mechanic have to listen to some whinny 944 owner who can pony up the bucks for a new Turbo, but doesn't want to pay to put it in? I'm afraid Pat's assessment of 944 owners is pretty close to the mark. There are far more who can't afford these cars than there are who can. It's not a cheap hobby, but it is a lot of fun!

icat

Geo - that avatar is just wrong!

Red1

Pro Technik. I was returning the slide hammer I borrowed.

KenC

Pat,

1)First of all "Thank you" for taking my call and the time out to speak to me. I can understand that you may have been in the middle of something (engine) and you didn't have to break loose for that 10 min. conversation. Seriously... Thanks!

2)I don't like being called a lier..Pat your statement to me was that you "hated" 944 owners. Yes, in gest. but to say that you never said that word is ridicules and an outright lie!

I guess I was wrong about you. All I was basing my judgement on was your initial statement to me of quote "It's not the cars I hate, It's the owners" It wasn't right for me to be upset about that. After all I should understand where your coming from.

Well No, I'm not a Mech. at all and it's up to you to understand that. And if you want someone to understand what you have gone through, then pick a different sentence to do it.

Apple to Apples: You go the doctor and and all you say is I have this pain, can you help me? and he says...Ya know I'd like to treat you, and I know how. But I hate Mechanics (in gest), they never have insurance and are always wanting to cut corners on prescriptions (generic). But I guess I'll see you........Well that ought to make you feel real good about having him as your doctor! This is how my wife felt about our conversation.

Mech. aren't the only ones who deal with these issues. Lots of other professions do as well. I was a cop for 8 years (Chicago). I saw the worst in people every day. Most everyone was lying to you, working an angle. But I could never make such a statement, even in gest! Because it would be miss understood, and that other person would never know what I go through on a daily basis. Even after an explanation. therefore a stupid thing to say!

So sorry Pat, I guess I'm just to sensitive and should have realized the tough position your in as a Mech. But anyways your in the private sector and therefore it's your right, and I choose to not give you my business.

Respectfully submitted,

Ken Coble
(Sorry Pat, wasn't fair for me to publish your full name without attaching my own full name as well)

Swagger93

Ok, the anger is out now. People say different things when they are not in person. It's a way of venting anger on not only the matter at hand but also about other matters.

Seems like everyone can forgive anD forget. These are just cars.

BTW-- i'm a teenager and a hard-core do it yourself-er. I put a turbo on a non-turbo saab for 150 dollars. I did 3-4k in maintainence on the 944 for about $1500 (ebay coming to the rescue). if you know how to be cheap about these cars there is no reason not to be. like rebuild that master cylinder rather than buy a new one. hey, and my car runs great!

that said OEM prices are a bit too high for these cars. i understand it is a rare european car, but, for example, a distributor cap is a distributor freaking cap, the only reason its so much more expensive for the porsche is that the market price seems driven up artificially by porsche (or bosch, whatever). i suppose R&D costs are a bit rough for them though..... bah whatever it's a porsche, im too addicted to not own one!

KenC

Swagger93: "Seems like everyone can forgive and forget. These are just cars."

I agree with you, however I spoke of this man and his business. As you can see many people have viewed this post. To speak of someones business in a negative manner should be honest and serious. I would never lie about a man or especially his business. It's easy for any of us to speak negatively about someones business on a forum, but I assure you I do not write what I will not speak in person.

So I say in closing (A Posative Note): That if you own a 911 in the Memphis area, there is no-one better to work on your car. And I say everyone in the Memphis area with 944's ought to fill his shop, and then pay your bill! There is no doubt that he will do a great job, and after all it's back to what "Swagger93" states; Forgive and forget! These are just cars.