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07-05-2004, 11:53 PM
#16
Race Director
" AND voting was something the average person in the colonies was not allowed to participate in."
Yep, it was like over 30-years before the landowers were granted ability to vote. Women didn't get to vote until the early 1900s.
I always like to bring up the more conservative nature of US culture compared to European because it's part of the lag in the evolution of US culture behind the Europeans (we're more resistant to change). For example:
- Slavery: Europeans abolished it well before the US. Even Tsarish Russa abolished before the U.S. In the U.S., it took a Civil War and over 2-million lives to accomplish it.
- Vote: as mentioned earlier, the ability of the ordinary citizen to vote came later in the U.S. To this day, we still do not have elections by popular vote. Hopefully someday, we'll catch up to the Europeans.
- Drugs & sex: This ongoing debate in the U.S. was faced by the Europeans decades ago. Someday we'll progress to their level
- Subsidized healthcare: Nothing dramatic here. We'll probably evolve towards some sort of socialized system like the Europeans. Perhaps by giving larger tax-deductions to health-care premiums and other costs. Or even using tax-money to subsidize 3rd-party private health-care systems.
Yep, it was like over 30-years before the landowers were granted ability to vote. Women didn't get to vote until the early 1900s.
I always like to bring up the more conservative nature of US culture compared to European because it's part of the lag in the evolution of US culture behind the Europeans (we're more resistant to change). For example:
- Slavery: Europeans abolished it well before the US. Even Tsarish Russa abolished before the U.S. In the U.S., it took a Civil War and over 2-million lives to accomplish it.
- Vote: as mentioned earlier, the ability of the ordinary citizen to vote came later in the U.S. To this day, we still do not have elections by popular vote. Hopefully someday, we'll catch up to the Europeans.
- Drugs & sex: This ongoing debate in the U.S. was faced by the Europeans decades ago. Someday we'll progress to their level
- Subsidized healthcare: Nothing dramatic here. We'll probably evolve towards some sort of socialized system like the Europeans. Perhaps by giving larger tax-deductions to health-care premiums and other costs. Or even using tax-money to subsidize 3rd-party private health-care systems.
07-06-2004, 02:26 AM
#17
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Nov 2003
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I don't think we can go back and place today's political definitions upon those who signed the Declaration of Independence. They had a common enemy in unjust taxation and repression of personal liberties.
I believe they would all vomit at the $24k debt on the head of every United States Citizen and the fact that since 1912 we have a European banking system that requires a personal income tax to stabilize the currency. The interest alone (no payment on the principal) on the National debt now accounts for 19.8% of every dollar spent in the 2004 budget. We went from the worlds largest creditor nation to the worlds largest debtor nation under Reagan. Bush 1 continued his supply side stupidity and now Bush II is doing the same.
In regards personal liberty what the founders of our country tried to prevent is now reborn in Bush's "Patriot Act" with the holding of prisoners without due process. Back then it was called the Star Chamber. I was glad to see that even Scalia put a thumbs down on the Bush administrations sophistry that they had no jurisdiction over Guantanamo so they could not uphold the terrorists rights. If they have violated a law or committed a crime then charge them otherwise how does the land of the free and home of the brave have any right to hold them? I am sure those prisoneers hate us and what we stand for but since when is that a crime? Continued holding of enemy combatants without charges only encourages others to join their cause.
Just some random thoughts from a liberal who also cried yesterday when I sang all three verses of the national anthem.
Jon
I believe they would all vomit at the $24k debt on the head of every United States Citizen and the fact that since 1912 we have a European banking system that requires a personal income tax to stabilize the currency. The interest alone (no payment on the principal) on the National debt now accounts for 19.8% of every dollar spent in the 2004 budget. We went from the worlds largest creditor nation to the worlds largest debtor nation under Reagan. Bush 1 continued his supply side stupidity and now Bush II is doing the same.
In regards personal liberty what the founders of our country tried to prevent is now reborn in Bush's "Patriot Act" with the holding of prisoners without due process. Back then it was called the Star Chamber. I was glad to see that even Scalia put a thumbs down on the Bush administrations sophistry that they had no jurisdiction over Guantanamo so they could not uphold the terrorists rights. If they have violated a law or committed a crime then charge them otherwise how does the land of the free and home of the brave have any right to hold them? I am sure those prisoneers hate us and what we stand for but since when is that a crime? Continued holding of enemy combatants without charges only encourages others to join their cause.
Just some random thoughts from a liberal who also cried yesterday when I sang all three verses of the national anthem.
Jon
