The Porsche community in general seems to value doing things the right or correct way, but the practice of adding significant front spring rate with lowering springs or coilovers while leaving the extremely soft torsion bars alone is very common and apparently acceptable.
It seems like nearly daily I see this suggested on FB groups and when I try to bring proper suspension setup into the conversion I'm the bad guy.
I've been told multiple times that spring rates or suspension balance are inconsequential on a street car.
How did this mindset become mainstream in an enthusiast community where people obsess about the torque spec for the spare tire hold down nut?

 

It has been said that the “attitude is in the altitude”. This has brought about a mindset that the car must look “bad” whether it is or isn’t. Many a modification has been made that resulted in zero performance gain and some actually caused a performance reduction. So for some, having it lowered or modified in some manner is more important than having it lowered or modified, properly setup and providing that you have improved it. When you look at your car and its looks please you, it’s better in your opinion whether it is or it isn’t.

When I was a kid we all had ladder bars on our rear suspension. Why? Because all the drag racers did. They did nothing for my ‘57 Chevy but add weight (performance reduction). But I HAD to have them… 🤷🏻‍♂️

Cliff

 

I get that there are a lot of modifications that make for subtle performance reductions. Like the popular cone filter directly ahead of the AFM. Doesn't add performance, probably results in a slight performance decrease that is not noticeable.

But wildly mismatched spring rates are super obvious, really horrible and hard to ignore. Go around one curve and you'll regret it. It would be hard to live with.

If I built a table that had two short legs, it wouldn't matter how amazing I made it look if I knew that when I bumped it it would rock and wobble. The aesthetics would be irrelevant if it was functionally a piece of crap.

 

You cannot tell from the facebook and instagram photos just how slow it is in the corners.

 

Lap times don't matter, Views and Follows matter.

I wasted time out of my life yesterday watching a video on YouTube that came up during a search on a topic which I am learning about but not expert. The video turned out to be an 8 minute long poorly constructed opinion piece informed by TikTok and Snapchat messages. In the end I was disappointed for sitting through 5 minutes of it. And yet it had thousand of views.

This is what we have become.

-T

 

Yeah I'm starting to think most people buy old cars just to take pictures of them.

 

I 100% agree.

I just think people just dont have the wherewithall to drop the rear suspension to correctly install re-index thicker torsion bars (because its a big job and overwhelming for some, or just too lazy to do it right). Im of the opinion if you cant wrench (and have a place to do the wrenching), then owning one of these cars is probably not going to be cost effective for you. Of course, there are always a few folks out there with enough money to pay others to do the work, which is fair if you have the resources. Most do not.

There are also at least two factions within the car community: the show crowd and the track/autox people, with sometimes a bit of overlap but that seems rare. For instance, there are people that show up with their car to every cars and coffee, but have yet to ever take their car to an autox, or even know how to do basic maintenance on their car. Hard to understand from my perspective but each person has their own preference I guess?

 

Was it Truman who said he read something like four newspapers a day so he could get an idea of the truth.

When I tell someone on Facebook or one of the other "modern" "just answer me" platforms that it has been beaten to death like a dead horse on Rennlist or Pelican I get the "why cant you just answer the question." response. So now I don't bother with the answer or where to find it. Good luck.

 

Yeah I'm sure you guys are correct in your reasoning why this seems so common.
I'd like to say that if I can drop the rear suspension to do the job right, anyone can, but I suppose that's not actually true. It's still not that hard though.
Still bothers me knowing how many 944's are pogo sticking around corners right now because "it's just a street car!".
FB groups, of any nature, not just cars, continue to disappoint me. Maybe it's because I'm old enough to remember when forums like these were the most commonly used repositories for years of information, and people seemed to better understand the etiquette of searching for that info before posting a new thread for every simple question they have.
The info on FB more or less disappears after it stops trending, and the way threads work with no way of quoting someone can make it very hard to follow.
That and the "spoon feed me the answer types" don't seem to want to learn. Something about feeding a man a fish or teaching him to fish..

 

If I had to guess, I would think s lack of knowing how to install larger diameter torsion bars and index them correctly on the first try would be my guess. I never have seen a table that shows the different installation angles vs. bar diameters. I know at the factory that must have had that information. Has anyone here seen it? Without it, the average owner/mechanic is in for a LOT of work.

 

My favorites -or most annoying
What tires should i put on my car?
Black round ones. Exactly what I use regardless of how different we use the car because I know all. Look at Tire Rack. Call Tire Rack - Nah!
What oil should I use - the best?
Exactly what I run because I know all. Fresh - Nah! ZDDP Meh.
What tire pressure should I run
Exactly what I run because I know all. Dont rely on the seat of your pants
How do I wash my car?
Treat your worn out 30 year old paint like your newborn's skin. Why the wise answer?
What are cheap mods I can do to the car?
Buy an air freshener. Stop there if you are asking as soon as you buy the car without knowing if it is safe to drive.

 

I'm not aware of any such table, but the indexing procedure is the same regardless of bar diameter.
If you take some measurements, make reference marks of everything at the stock setting, pretend to do some geometry and then sprinkle in a little guesswork I think it's not impossible to get the indexing done right the first time.

 

It is indeed the massive PITA job most avoid.

Plus good lowering springs are not cheap, and not plentiful at stock rates. I actually put such on my 931, as I drive it in Detroit - need all the soft I can get!!! But they were made to order from Moton, and cost nearly $400 just for two springs!

Ironically, after all that... I have to swap out the rear suspension anyway, as I wanted to fit the 968 M030 Cup Car rear bar... only to realize that the car doesn't even have a rear bar, nor mounts, so have to swap all that in!!! Step 1, though, completely clean and refinish the donor rear torsion bar carrier so it doesn't look like hell when it goes in...

 

Did you look into the Ground Control coilovers? I think they are just over $300 in spring rates of your choosing. That or good old fashioned Weltmeisters for $180ish.
And yeah, I feel you on modifying a 924. I've got a non runner parked next to my 944 right now and if it was my first transaxle car it would've been my last. Mostly just because of parts availability and lack of aftermarket parts and avenues for improvement that don't involve basically creating 924S. It's definitely more of an enjoy as is car in my mind. So you get extra respect points for improving yours.
That said, there were (are?) brackets available to mount a rear bar to the 924 torsion tube.

 

Yeah, that's my point, I did not want a higher spring rate. The ones I got are indeed stock rate, just shorter...

931s are definitely a lot more rewarding to mod than the NA cars, for sure... 2.0 NA cars can be fun, light, and lively, but fast is a matter of perspective, and... yeah.