Rennlist and the guys that helped me battle Geico are published in a magazine
06-05-2004, 05:25 PM
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Rennlist and the guys that helped me battle Geico are published in a magazine
Hey guys,
You know Keith Martin is the GURU, and his magazine Sports Car Market is the bible of car collecting just like Rennlist is the mecca for Porsche enthusiasts.
When my 944 was stolen last September I got in contact with Jim Schrager who wrote many Porsche books, and writes a monthly article for Sports Car Market on collecting Porsches. Mr. Schrager was very helpful. He gave me a lot of insight into valuing Porsches. I promised to give him an update on my battle with Geico. I lost his number, so I sent Sports Car Market a letter thanking Mr. Schrager, with an update.
Well, that letter was turned into an article. Of course I gave credit where credit is due. Rennlist, and the help you guys gave me is mentioned in the article. Remember when John made my request for information into a sticky post.
Here is a link to the current issue. Link to Sports Car Market Magazine
If the link doesn't work try www.sportscarmarket.com. Page 27.
If someone can get the article to post in this thread it would be cool.
And after you read the article, read the rest of the magazine. It is by far the best magazine for red blooded car nuts out. Plus the writing especially in this months "Legal Files" is some of literatures best ever. Long before they published my story I've recommended people subscribe to the magazine.
Enjoy, and thanks
You know Keith Martin is the GURU, and his magazine Sports Car Market is the bible of car collecting just like Rennlist is the mecca for Porsche enthusiasts.
When my 944 was stolen last September I got in contact with Jim Schrager who wrote many Porsche books, and writes a monthly article for Sports Car Market on collecting Porsches. Mr. Schrager was very helpful. He gave me a lot of insight into valuing Porsches. I promised to give him an update on my battle with Geico. I lost his number, so I sent Sports Car Market a letter thanking Mr. Schrager, with an update.
Well, that letter was turned into an article. Of course I gave credit where credit is due. Rennlist, and the help you guys gave me is mentioned in the article. Remember when John made my request for information into a sticky post.
Here is a link to the current issue. Link to Sports Car Market Magazine
If the link doesn't work try www.sportscarmarket.com. Page 27.
If someone can get the article to post in this thread it would be cool.
And after you read the article, read the rest of the magazine. It is by far the best magazine for red blooded car nuts out. Plus the writing especially in this months "Legal Files" is some of literatures best ever. Long before they published my story I've recommended people subscribe to the magazine.
Enjoy, and thanks
Last edited by Tom R.; 06-05-2004 at 10:43 PM.
06-05-2004, 06:10 PM
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Cool article Tom. I have Geico for my 38K mile turbo S that I paid premium for and I dread the day of calling them for anything. I had a collectors insurance with agreed value for a year but could not stand all the restrictions....Hopefully, I will never have to deal with what you dealt with.
06-05-2004, 06:14 PM
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Here it is. With respect to the publication, Everyone should read their magazine...
The following is a letter we received from
SCM’er Tom Radow, detailing the diffi -
culty he had coming to a resolution with
his insurance company over the value
of his stolen Porsche.
Dear SCM: In September 2000 I purchased
a 1989 Porsche 944 S2 from a local dealer for
$11,500. It had 56,000 miles showing at the
time, and over the next 35 months I drove the
car another 18,000. I am an autocrosser, so the
car was treated to a new clutch, Koni shocks,
and Boxster take-off wheels and a new set of
tires, among other things. In May 2003 I put
more money, perhaps foolishly, into the motor
and a set of 12-way 928 seats. The motor was
rebuilt because of the 944’s all-too-common
“coolant milkshake,” where oil gets into the
coolant when the O-ring on the tube connecting
the external oil cooler to the block fails.
While I was at it, the motor was treated to
rings, rod bearings, cam chain and tensioner,
oil seals, etc.
Finally, my Porsche was in just the condition
I wanted. But on September 2, 2003, I
parked my Porsche at the train station and went
to work. When I returned, I was shocked—my
car was gone.
I started the claim process with my insurance
company, Geico. The adjuster assigned
to my case was a nice woman who told me
she didn’t know much about cars, and asked
my advice on her rusty, high-mileage Buick’s
brake issues. Part of the process included me
telling her about the recent work done to my
car. She told me the car sounded nice, that
someone from an outside company would determine
the “fair market value” (FMV) of my
car, and I would be contacted afterwards.
A rental car was provided by the insurance
company, and few weeks later I got a letter stating
the FMV of my Porsche was a whopping
$9,000—obviously, I was not happy with this
unreasonably low valuation. The only comparable
used in the appraisal was a 1990 944 S2
advertised by a wholesaler, whom I contacted.
It turns out that this “comparable” had double
the miles of my 944, showed evidence of prior
body work (mine had all original paint), needed
more body work, and had curb rash, bald
tires, worn seat bolsters, and a cracked dash. In
fact, the wholesaler’s fright pig was advertised
at $11,400, but the appraisal company knocked
$2,400 off that price because this car was a
year newer than mine!
I got the documentation from the appraisal
My Porsche Gets Stolen And
You Offer Me This?
As a tax attorney, I am familiar with the IRS definition of Fair Market
Value, but my insurance company wasn’t impressed
company that it used to determine the FMV of
my car, the “backup.” The appraisal company
put a zero value on the recent work done to the
car, stating that this was just maintenance. As
a tax attorney, I am familiar with the IRS defi -
nition of FMV, but I also contacted the New
York State Insurance Department and got the
legal defi nition of FMV as it applies to a motor
vehicle, a “substantially similar vehicle” that
is the “same make, model, year and condition,
including all major options…” (Italics mine.)
But my adjuster told me Geico’s defi nition
was what vehicles similar to mine are selling
for. While there is a large market for Camrys
and Accords, the market for a 944 S2 (or any
relatively low production vehicle similar to
what an SCM’er might own) isn’t quite the
same. Was the market for 944 S2s so thin that
there was only one car for sale at the time mine
was stolen? I didn’t think so.
TIME FOR SOME FACTS
I knew I wouldn’t get the adjuster to increase
the value unless I had hard facts, and if I
had an appraisal that was better than Geico’s, a
judge would be more likely to rule in my favor
if I were to escalate the issue. I contacted Jim
Schrager for advice, and he was very helpful
in taking the time to provide me with insight
into a realistic valuation of the car, explaining
that Porsches are more sensitive to condition
than miles. I also checked the Resource Directory
in the back of SCM for an appraiser, and
called Charles Clarke for more coaching. We
discussed valuation theories, and I decided to
apply my knowledge of business valuation to
autos before hiring an expert.
When valuing anything, an appraisal should
have more then one comparable sale, and
backup for each adjustment. I designed a questionnaire
to gather appraisal information from
people who recently purchased 944 S2s from
the Rennlist Web site (www.rennlist.com), and
contacted sellers advertising in Panorama, on
eBay, and in my local newspaper.
With information from about 25 vehicles,
I narrowed my appraisal to eight 944 S2s that
were recently purchased or currently listed for
sale. To take a 944 S2 and bring it up to the
condition mine was in averaged about $18,000.
The SCM Price Guide tops at $14,000.
I found one 944 S2 advertised in the local
paper, 15 miles from my house. Strangely,
Geico and the appraisal company could not
explain why they ignored this comparable
with a private party’s retail asking price of
about $13,000, a car with 30,000 more miles
than mine had. I used 10 cents per mile as a
mileage adjustment for valuing this car, and I
pro-rated the cost of the “maintenance” items
done weeks before my car was stolen.
I also prepared my own valuation of the
insurance company’s comparable, factoring in
T
the cost to repair the cracked dash and bring
the car up to the level of mine.
CONDITION DOES MATTER
I sent the adjuster my appraisal and reminded
her that the law included the term
“condition.” I explained that the cost of bringing
her fright pig into the same condition as my
car would make it a comparable
of $21,902! I explained the
accepted standards I used in
my valuation and asked her to
provide backup for any changes
she believed were in order.
Further, I explained that I was an attorney with
extensive training in business valuation, but
the dialogue rapidly deteriorated and we did
not come to a deal.
My time limit for my insurance-provided
rental was fast approaching, and I knew I
needed another car. I had just fi nished reading
Editor Martin’s praise for his ’92 “Al-Can”
Corvette, and though a Chevy is certainly a
different beast than a Porsche, when I stumbled
on a spotless 1993 Z28 six-speed with 32,000
miles and close to $5,000 in suspension, wheel
and motor improvements, I pulled the trigger.
It fi t my needs—a sub-$10,000 car that I could
park at the train station as easily as autocross.
I left a message for my adjuster, but she
was on vacation, so I got a call back from her
co-worker. She told me she wanted to settle
my case for the original offer, and that I had
to turn in my rental. I told her I already turned
in my rental, had purchased a replacement car,
and requested that she prepare the paperwork
to take this debate to the next level. I explained
to the new adjuster my arguments for a higher
value, again stressing the term “condition.” I
told her I wanted a judge to decide which appraisal
was better—mine, based on actual sales
with detailed breakdowns on eight cars, or
hers, with one car from a wholesaler. She asked
if she could get back to me. Minutes later my
phone rang and the $9,000 offer had miraculously
changed to $14,000 plus sales tax!
Hopefully you will not fi nd yourself in
this situation. My extensive legwork resulted
in a settlement that was more than 50 percent
higher than the original offer. If I put in a little
more time, and pressed a little more would the
settlement have been greater? Perhaps—just
ask yourself, how much would you have paid
for my 944?—Tom Radow, Atlantic Beach,
NY
SCM Legal Analyst John Draneas comments:
In the end, it was critically important
that Tom had done his homework, and came
up with undisputable values of comparable
Porsches. But don’t overlook three other
important facts. First, he bought another car,
without the insurance company’s money, meaning
it didn’t have as much leverage over him.
Second, he made it clear that he was ready to
go to court, and it was a believable
threat considering he is an
attorney. Third, and possibly
most important, the settlement
was reached when his adjuster
was on vacation and another
one was fi lling in. It wasn’t her problem, and
she was likely more willing to get the matter
over with quickly, no matter what the result.
Don’t forget, Tom is an experienced and
skilled attorney, his day job is negotiating
diffi cult situations, and he has an extensive
knowledge of valuation techniques. Imagine
how much it would have cost you to hire him to
negotiate such a settlement for you.
We’ll explore this situation and other insurance
issues, beginning next month.
John Draneas is an attorney and car collector
in Oregon. His comments here are general
in nature and are not a substitute for consultation
with an attorney. He may be contacted at
legalfi les@sportscarmarket.com.u
“If I put in a little more time, and pressed a little more would the
settlement have been greater? Perhaps—just ask yourself, how
much would you have paid for my 944?”
The following is a letter we received from
SCM’er Tom Radow, detailing the diffi -
culty he had coming to a resolution with
his insurance company over the value
of his stolen Porsche.
Dear SCM: In September 2000 I purchased
a 1989 Porsche 944 S2 from a local dealer for
$11,500. It had 56,000 miles showing at the
time, and over the next 35 months I drove the
car another 18,000. I am an autocrosser, so the
car was treated to a new clutch, Koni shocks,
and Boxster take-off wheels and a new set of
tires, among other things. In May 2003 I put
more money, perhaps foolishly, into the motor
and a set of 12-way 928 seats. The motor was
rebuilt because of the 944’s all-too-common
“coolant milkshake,” where oil gets into the
coolant when the O-ring on the tube connecting
the external oil cooler to the block fails.
While I was at it, the motor was treated to
rings, rod bearings, cam chain and tensioner,
oil seals, etc.
Finally, my Porsche was in just the condition
I wanted. But on September 2, 2003, I
parked my Porsche at the train station and went
to work. When I returned, I was shocked—my
car was gone.
I started the claim process with my insurance
company, Geico. The adjuster assigned
to my case was a nice woman who told me
she didn’t know much about cars, and asked
my advice on her rusty, high-mileage Buick’s
brake issues. Part of the process included me
telling her about the recent work done to my
car. She told me the car sounded nice, that
someone from an outside company would determine
the “fair market value” (FMV) of my
car, and I would be contacted afterwards.
A rental car was provided by the insurance
company, and few weeks later I got a letter stating
the FMV of my Porsche was a whopping
$9,000—obviously, I was not happy with this
unreasonably low valuation. The only comparable
used in the appraisal was a 1990 944 S2
advertised by a wholesaler, whom I contacted.
It turns out that this “comparable” had double
the miles of my 944, showed evidence of prior
body work (mine had all original paint), needed
more body work, and had curb rash, bald
tires, worn seat bolsters, and a cracked dash. In
fact, the wholesaler’s fright pig was advertised
at $11,400, but the appraisal company knocked
$2,400 off that price because this car was a
year newer than mine!
I got the documentation from the appraisal
My Porsche Gets Stolen And
You Offer Me This?
As a tax attorney, I am familiar with the IRS definition of Fair Market
Value, but my insurance company wasn’t impressed
company that it used to determine the FMV of
my car, the “backup.” The appraisal company
put a zero value on the recent work done to the
car, stating that this was just maintenance. As
a tax attorney, I am familiar with the IRS defi -
nition of FMV, but I also contacted the New
York State Insurance Department and got the
legal defi nition of FMV as it applies to a motor
vehicle, a “substantially similar vehicle” that
is the “same make, model, year and condition,
including all major options…” (Italics mine.)
But my adjuster told me Geico’s defi nition
was what vehicles similar to mine are selling
for. While there is a large market for Camrys
and Accords, the market for a 944 S2 (or any
relatively low production vehicle similar to
what an SCM’er might own) isn’t quite the
same. Was the market for 944 S2s so thin that
there was only one car for sale at the time mine
was stolen? I didn’t think so.
TIME FOR SOME FACTS
I knew I wouldn’t get the adjuster to increase
the value unless I had hard facts, and if I
had an appraisal that was better than Geico’s, a
judge would be more likely to rule in my favor
if I were to escalate the issue. I contacted Jim
Schrager for advice, and he was very helpful
in taking the time to provide me with insight
into a realistic valuation of the car, explaining
that Porsches are more sensitive to condition
than miles. I also checked the Resource Directory
in the back of SCM for an appraiser, and
called Charles Clarke for more coaching. We
discussed valuation theories, and I decided to
apply my knowledge of business valuation to
autos before hiring an expert.
When valuing anything, an appraisal should
have more then one comparable sale, and
backup for each adjustment. I designed a questionnaire
to gather appraisal information from
people who recently purchased 944 S2s from
the Rennlist Web site (www.rennlist.com), and
contacted sellers advertising in Panorama, on
eBay, and in my local newspaper.
With information from about 25 vehicles,
I narrowed my appraisal to eight 944 S2s that
were recently purchased or currently listed for
sale. To take a 944 S2 and bring it up to the
condition mine was in averaged about $18,000.
The SCM Price Guide tops at $14,000.
I found one 944 S2 advertised in the local
paper, 15 miles from my house. Strangely,
Geico and the appraisal company could not
explain why they ignored this comparable
with a private party’s retail asking price of
about $13,000, a car with 30,000 more miles
than mine had. I used 10 cents per mile as a
mileage adjustment for valuing this car, and I
pro-rated the cost of the “maintenance” items
done weeks before my car was stolen.
I also prepared my own valuation of the
insurance company’s comparable, factoring in
T
the cost to repair the cracked dash and bring
the car up to the level of mine.
CONDITION DOES MATTER
I sent the adjuster my appraisal and reminded
her that the law included the term
“condition.” I explained that the cost of bringing
her fright pig into the same condition as my
car would make it a comparable
of $21,902! I explained the
accepted standards I used in
my valuation and asked her to
provide backup for any changes
she believed were in order.
Further, I explained that I was an attorney with
extensive training in business valuation, but
the dialogue rapidly deteriorated and we did
not come to a deal.
My time limit for my insurance-provided
rental was fast approaching, and I knew I
needed another car. I had just fi nished reading
Editor Martin’s praise for his ’92 “Al-Can”
Corvette, and though a Chevy is certainly a
different beast than a Porsche, when I stumbled
on a spotless 1993 Z28 six-speed with 32,000
miles and close to $5,000 in suspension, wheel
and motor improvements, I pulled the trigger.
It fi t my needs—a sub-$10,000 car that I could
park at the train station as easily as autocross.
I left a message for my adjuster, but she
was on vacation, so I got a call back from her
co-worker. She told me she wanted to settle
my case for the original offer, and that I had
to turn in my rental. I told her I already turned
in my rental, had purchased a replacement car,
and requested that she prepare the paperwork
to take this debate to the next level. I explained
to the new adjuster my arguments for a higher
value, again stressing the term “condition.” I
told her I wanted a judge to decide which appraisal
was better—mine, based on actual sales
with detailed breakdowns on eight cars, or
hers, with one car from a wholesaler. She asked
if she could get back to me. Minutes later my
phone rang and the $9,000 offer had miraculously
changed to $14,000 plus sales tax!
Hopefully you will not fi nd yourself in
this situation. My extensive legwork resulted
in a settlement that was more than 50 percent
higher than the original offer. If I put in a little
more time, and pressed a little more would the
settlement have been greater? Perhaps—just
ask yourself, how much would you have paid
for my 944?—Tom Radow, Atlantic Beach,
NY
SCM Legal Analyst John Draneas comments:
In the end, it was critically important
that Tom had done his homework, and came
up with undisputable values of comparable
Porsches. But don’t overlook three other
important facts. First, he bought another car,
without the insurance company’s money, meaning
it didn’t have as much leverage over him.
Second, he made it clear that he was ready to
go to court, and it was a believable
threat considering he is an
attorney. Third, and possibly
most important, the settlement
was reached when his adjuster
was on vacation and another
one was fi lling in. It wasn’t her problem, and
she was likely more willing to get the matter
over with quickly, no matter what the result.
Don’t forget, Tom is an experienced and
skilled attorney, his day job is negotiating
diffi cult situations, and he has an extensive
knowledge of valuation techniques. Imagine
how much it would have cost you to hire him to
negotiate such a settlement for you.
We’ll explore this situation and other insurance
issues, beginning next month.
John Draneas is an attorney and car collector
in Oregon. His comments here are general
in nature and are not a substitute for consultation
with an attorney. He may be contacted at
legalfi les@sportscarmarket.com.u
“If I put in a little more time, and pressed a little more would the
settlement have been greater? Perhaps—just ask yourself, how
much would you have paid for my 944?”
06-05-2004, 06:31 PM
#5
Nordschleife Master
IMO, a great portion of this victory may only be due to the fact the owner is a lawyer. I doubt many of us would be able to get the same results, even with all the research. Oh well, chalk up one at least for the good guys.
06-05-2004, 06:53 PM
#6
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Peckster,
I battled State Farm in 1998 when my 87 Highly modified 38K mile 951 was was stolen and I did very well, bringing the settlement up $3K
I am not a lawyer, you just need to be motivated and pissed off enough to fight then,
Great article Tom!!
I battled State Farm in 1998 when my 87 Highly modified 38K mile 951 was was stolen and I did very well, bringing the settlement up $3K
I am not a lawyer, you just need to be motivated and pissed off enough to fight then,
Great article Tom!!
06-05-2004, 07:08 PM
#7
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Glad that you got Geico to settle on the claim. Interesting insight on the claims process with Geico as I have them as my insurance company.
I belong to the Oregon PCA. We are lucky to have John Draneas as one of the most active members in the club. He is quite a waelth of information on Porcshes.
I belong to the Oregon PCA. We are lucky to have John Draneas as one of the most active members in the club. He is quite a waelth of information on Porcshes.
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06-05-2004, 07:24 PM
#8
Thinking outside da' bun...
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Great article Tom R. You definitely did Rennlist proud.
I had a similar problem with Progressive when my 92 GS-R was totaled. Although the dollars were less the % they were hosing me was about the same as yours. I eventually got what I wanted after pulling and gnashing of teeth.
I think the key is quickly showing an insurance company they you own them, not they own you. They are use to bullying people around and settling for values that help their bottom line -- lowballing. If you let them know up front that you are the boss and that power is absolute and undispiuted, then they tend to ease up on their bully tactics when they know you mean business. Being an attorney was an ace in the hole for Tom so he had a working background in the lingo already, but I think much of it is attitude. If you walk in just put it on the table that you are not going to be jerked around and remind them that you know more about cars then all of them combined will ever know (highly likely), they realize they are fighting an uphill battle and its cheaper for them to settle ASAP. Nobody wants to go to an arbitator. I almost did and felt confident if I had, but at that points its a crapshoot.
I had a similar problem with Progressive when my 92 GS-R was totaled. Although the dollars were less the % they were hosing me was about the same as yours. I eventually got what I wanted after pulling and gnashing of teeth.
I think the key is quickly showing an insurance company they you own them, not they own you. They are use to bullying people around and settling for values that help their bottom line -- lowballing. If you let them know up front that you are the boss and that power is absolute and undispiuted, then they tend to ease up on their bully tactics when they know you mean business. Being an attorney was an ace in the hole for Tom so he had a working background in the lingo already, but I think much of it is attitude. If you walk in just put it on the table that you are not going to be jerked around and remind them that you know more about cars then all of them combined will ever know (highly likely), they realize they are fighting an uphill battle and its cheaper for them to settle ASAP. Nobody wants to go to an arbitator. I almost did and felt confident if I had, but at that points its a crapshoot.
06-05-2004, 11:11 PM
#10
Race Car
Great letter Tom! I think anyone can do this if they are willing to put in the time it takes to do their homework. I got an insurance company to go from a $5200 first offer to over $8500 on my NA whe a truck backed over it(then bought it back and fixed it for a little less, you just have to make your case and (like Tom) I wasn't dependant on a settlement for transportation so I was able to go as long as it took. The best part of that story is that in doing my research I discovered the Rennlist classifieds and then found my way to this forum. It also doesn't hurt that carfax STILL doesn't mention the car being totaled!
06-06-2004, 12:22 AM
#11
IMO, a great portion of this victory may only be due to the fact the owner is a lawyer. I doubt many of us would be able to get the same results, even with all the research
I disagree, we did nearly the same thing when my wifes 84 Camaro was stolen. They offered us a whopping 1500 dollars. By the time we were done we were paid over 8K dollars.
All with legwork. Showing cars in "like" condition, not the ratty *** mullet mobile down the street. We ALMOST broke even on it, considering the crate 350 had all of 400 miles on it. Car had been finished exactly 2 weeks when it was stolen, talk about heart break. What really sucked is that is was entirely custom, the theives couldnt ever drive it as any would have recognized it. Bastards just cut it up for parts.
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I disagree, we did nearly the same thing when my wifes 84 Camaro was stolen. They offered us a whopping 1500 dollars. By the time we were done we were paid over 8K dollars.
All with legwork. Showing cars in "like" condition, not the ratty *** mullet mobile down the street. We ALMOST broke even on it, considering the crate 350 had all of 400 miles on it. Car had been finished exactly 2 weeks when it was stolen, talk about heart break. What really sucked is that is was entirely custom, the theives couldnt ever drive it as any would have recognized it. Bastards just cut it up for parts.
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06-06-2004, 10:45 AM
#12
Rennlist Member
I would agree that Tom being a lawyer is probably not what did it. It's the credible threat of going to court and adjudicating the claim. Ultimately, whether you are a raving lunatic or a polished negotiator, they make claim decisions based on cost avoidance. In this case, I'm sure that it was easy for Geico to come to the conclusion that they would do no better than $14k (legal expenses included) if they were to enter litigation, and that the probability of entering litigation in this case was 100%.
06-07-2004, 11:19 AM
#13
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what did it was minutes after i agreed to 14k the mail came with the NYS definition of FMV from the NYS insurance dept. the next day i got the fax to sign settling the case. while all discussions were for a value before tax, parts before tax, etc. the fax says 14k complete.
thats when i called back and pulled my acceptance of her offer off the table. i told her to tell her boss that i was an idiot because i believed the 14k was before tax (1k, 8.75%) like every other negotiation. i tore her a new one for a good 20 minutes going into every detail of my car.
i at one point told her i expected her to find a vehicle in the same conditon as mine with the same miles. I wanted a car in no less of a conditon than one that would pca tech for a DE. she said that couldnt happen because geico doesnt insure race cars. i threw the ad when porsche said all cars with his name......
she asked if she could get back to me. i gave her X amount of time to get back, or i didnt want to hear from her unless it was with the papers to take it to the next level. she came back and said her boss ok'd 14k plus tax i told her the only reason i was accepting it was because i said ok the day before. had i had the law the day before, i would probably have pushed for 16 plus tax. dont forget the shocks, tires and ball joints had 5k on them at a cost of 3k, the motor had 1500 miles on it and cost $5500, thats 8k right there. add for the seats that junkyards want 1k for, and you get the picture.
she had all that information in front of her when she started playing games.
that wasnt good lawyering, that was just one pissed off **** with a sore butt from the reaming they were trying to give me.
but the stuff in this post, doesnt really add to the article.
thats when i called back and pulled my acceptance of her offer off the table. i told her to tell her boss that i was an idiot because i believed the 14k was before tax (1k, 8.75%) like every other negotiation. i tore her a new one for a good 20 minutes going into every detail of my car.
i at one point told her i expected her to find a vehicle in the same conditon as mine with the same miles. I wanted a car in no less of a conditon than one that would pca tech for a DE. she said that couldnt happen because geico doesnt insure race cars. i threw the ad when porsche said all cars with his name......
she asked if she could get back to me. i gave her X amount of time to get back, or i didnt want to hear from her unless it was with the papers to take it to the next level. she came back and said her boss ok'd 14k plus tax i told her the only reason i was accepting it was because i said ok the day before. had i had the law the day before, i would probably have pushed for 16 plus tax. dont forget the shocks, tires and ball joints had 5k on them at a cost of 3k, the motor had 1500 miles on it and cost $5500, thats 8k right there. add for the seats that junkyards want 1k for, and you get the picture.
she had all that information in front of her when she started playing games.
that wasnt good lawyering, that was just one pissed off **** with a sore butt from the reaming they were trying to give me.
but the stuff in this post, doesnt really add to the article.
06-07-2004, 12:39 PM
#14
Intermediate
Join Date: Feb 2004
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In a prior life I used to sell cars. I can remember an insurance agent calling for a used Camaro Z with specified mileage. What I learned from this is when you are low-balled, ask them to replace your vehicle. Same make, same year, same condition. Don't know if that is still an option, but it was in the '80's. By the way. I had a run-in with Geico and left. I found them to be arrogant, uninformed, unprofessional and generally a pain in the *** to do business with.
06-07-2004, 12:54 PM
#15
Race Car
So does this mean that most of the money I put into my car for maintaining it and upgrading it can be recouped if the car is stolen? I know that money spent on upgrading or maintaining a car doesn't necessarily mean more money when selling, but should the car burn up or get totalled or even stolen, I can get my money back?
I'm glad that turned out well for you Tom, I'm sure MANY people have gotten dragged over the coals by some insurance companies.
I'm glad that turned out well for you Tom, I'm sure MANY people have gotten dragged over the coals by some insurance companies.