Yeah. I'de say that headgasket was blown...
05-19-2004, 08:40 AM
#16
You can get a valve job done and if you're really interested port / polish the head. From what I've been told that can give you about 20-30 h.p. right there.
Not likely on an NA, try 5HP, MAYBE.
Joe, I also think you are right, that is a crap load of coolant to be in a cylinder for a tear that small. The gasket on my 951 looked MUCH worse (missing material) and had it not been for the oil leak at the back of the block, I might not have known it was leaking at all.
You need to VERY carefully check the head and block. You should have started with a compression test. If it was mine I would send the head to be checked.
I also see what appear to be screwdriver pry marks around #4, really not a good idea :>)
Lastly, the 3.0L block is siamesed and not open as Joe correctly states.
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Not likely on an NA, try 5HP, MAYBE.
Joe, I also think you are right, that is a crap load of coolant to be in a cylinder for a tear that small. The gasket on my 951 looked MUCH worse (missing material) and had it not been for the oil leak at the back of the block, I might not have known it was leaking at all.
You need to VERY carefully check the head and block. You should have started with a compression test. If it was mine I would send the head to be checked.
I also see what appear to be screwdriver pry marks around #4, really not a good idea :>)
Lastly, the 3.0L block is siamesed and not open as Joe correctly states.
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05-19-2004, 08:45 AM
#17
Originally posted by 83na944
Joe, so the space around the cylinders is filled with water, right? Then a cracked block would be a crack in one of the cylinder walls?
Joe, so the space around the cylinders is filled with water, right? Then a cracked block would be a crack in one of the cylinder walls?
In the picture of the head, the area around #2 & #3 appears to be more dirty. Think this is contamination from coolant? [/QUOTE]
It's tough to tell from that angle. The head just looks wet. There is a lot of corrosion on the sealing surface of the head which means somebody ran the wrong coolant for a long time in that car. Campeck, how many miles are on that engine? The head surface looks similar to my '84's although it only had about 75k when I pulled the head. But that car was so abused it's scary (long story, but car site unseen, been a project for the past few years).
05-19-2004, 11:48 AM
#18
Rennlist Member
Originally posted by Joe Jackson
There's sure is a hole, but it's one that should be there. Underneath the gasket, the block is all open in that area. Over the years, the coolant and water mix will eat away at the gasket leaving holes in the area and also some corrosion and metal loss on the cylinder head. No big deal in most cases.
There's sure is a hole, but it's one that should be there. Underneath the gasket, the block is all open in that area. Over the years, the coolant and water mix will eat away at the gasket leaving holes in the area and also some corrosion and metal loss on the cylinder head. No big deal in most cases.
05-19-2004, 12:15 PM
#19
Exactly what I meant to add to my above statement but early mornings aren't a good time for my brain. Thanks for that addition.
Originally posted by fty
Thats why you need the GM coolant (phosphate free), orange stuff, it will prevent that, destruction on aluminum parts. Good luck with the rebuild Campeck-chris
Thats why you need the GM coolant (phosphate free), orange stuff, it will prevent that, destruction on aluminum parts. Good luck with the rebuild Campeck-chris
05-19-2004, 12:45 PM
#20
Three Wheelin'
FYI- coolant will often dump into the cylinders when you break the headgasket seal between the cylinder and the head. It's just leftover coolant that doesn't all drain out from the passages in the head when you drain from the radiator. I've pulled the head on my 2.0L and had this happen just about everytime.
Not sure if the same happens with the 2.5's, but I can't imagine any other way for that much coolant to get into the cylinder. You would have blown the head off if there was ever that much coolant in there and you even just tried to crank the starter.
Good luck,
-nick
Not sure if the same happens with the 2.5's, but I can't imagine any other way for that much coolant to get into the cylinder. You would have blown the head off if there was ever that much coolant in there and you even just tried to crank the starter.
Good luck,
-nick
05-19-2004, 01:09 PM
#21
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Nick... I am in agreement with you. Although I have drained my coolant when I pulled the head, I've always had some coolant enter the cylinders. That motor would hydrolock or mush a rod if you compressed that much coolant.
Campeck - how much coolant were you losing when it was in running condition?
Campeck - how much coolant were you losing when it was in running condition?
05-19-2004, 02:13 PM
#23
Nordschleife Master
Where's the water in the oil!?
Where's the water in the oil!?
I've helped to work on two headgaskets over the last month, and NEVER saw that! There was ALWAYS a breach in the metal rings around the cylinder, and lots of bulging in the gasket.
One 944 N/A and a 951.
If it just poured out into the cylinders, I hope so. But my fear would be a crack in the block at this point.
Get that water out of the cylinders ASAP! I don't care if you shop vac it out.
BTW - if it isn't a cracked head, please PLEASE do not clean the cylinders with a wire brush or wheel in there! You could be doing damage to the cylinder walls.
- Julie
I've helped to work on two headgaskets over the last month, and NEVER saw that! There was ALWAYS a breach in the metal rings around the cylinder, and lots of bulging in the gasket.
One 944 N/A and a 951.
If it just poured out into the cylinders, I hope so. But my fear would be a crack in the block at this point.
Get that water out of the cylinders ASAP! I don't care if you shop vac it out.
BTW - if it isn't a cracked head, please PLEASE do not clean the cylinders with a wire brush or wheel in there! You could be doing damage to the cylinder walls.
- Julie
05-19-2004, 03:11 PM
#24
I guess I should have asked how much coolant was drained before removing the head. The head is at the top of the cooling system so it's the first spot to drain, hence why if the system was drained and that much coolant was in the cylinders when the head pulled, it didn't get in there after the head was removed. If you tried to pull the head with a full cooling system then you would dump a lot of coolant into the cylinder and oil passageways.
05-19-2004, 04:52 PM
#26
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i have pulled the head of my old engine 3 times and my new one once and everytime coolant spilled into the cylinders. i just sucked what i could out and spounged the rest. i also applied some grease inside knowing that it would be exposed to the elements for a while.
05-20-2004, 10:53 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
That had to have run into the cylinder when the head was being removed. Hydrolocking aside, if you had tons of coolant washing through the cylinder, I'd think that the piston and valves would be a lot cleaner (i.e., "steam cleaned").
05-20-2004, 10:57 PM
#28
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I stopped over to check it out this evening... seems Aribop and Campeck found the problem. The headgasket is toast between the hole Campeck found and the sealing ring.
Now all they need to do is get it back together!
Now all they need to do is get it back together!
05-20-2004, 11:23 PM
#29
Good stuff. I just found it odd that the headgasket did not look distorted at all, but then again, I'm looking at a low res digital picture and not the actual thing. My apologies for jumping to the conclusion of a cracked block. didn't mean to scare anyone.
