Dave

Thanks Danno, I had a feeling that was the case but wanted to be clear since I've heard some conflicting information.

Doze & Sam, The MAFterburner looks like a great unit but it's also one of the most expensive, Lindsey's price on the perfect power box is almost double some of the other sources. The problem with the existing kits is that nobody has a decent MAF setup for the NA cars at a reasonable price, there's no reason something couldn't be put together for around $500.

Sam Lin

Dave, that's exactly what I don't understand. Lindsey has gone the ideal route and had a MAF custom calibrated to match the stock AFM in flow vs voltage, so for under $300 you have a plug and play MAF - I've mentioned it numerous times and noone's listened.

Sam

kevin Dubois

yeah, but space you have an NA that you are supercharging? i will have to check the diagrams because i know they will be a little different then mine. i had two wires tie into the KLR which you don't have.

as far as not having enough adjustability with the AFC, i can adjust the fuel by as much as +-50% at any given RPM level but yes obviously if the signal goes past the 5V it most likely will not do anything. i would think the same thing applies to any MAF you install going to stock chips in the stock computer.

danno, the key to my setup is that i have adjustable fuel pressure as well as the AFC to adjust the intake signal. so i can crank up the fuel pressure a bit, and more fuel will be injected across the board, so using a MAF that gives more air flow at the same readings as the barn door, i should be compensating correctly, and the AFC can fine tune it for me with the WBO2. i am also pretty sure my injectors will be maxing out soon, which also can be remidied, and i will be surely be buying the GURU chips becuase i am having issues with the boost protection, and i know that will solve that problem. i just wish i had the money to go the distance with the TEC, but all in due time.

and all of my ideas are pure speculation until i get to test/tune it on the dyno this week or next. i might try and find a mustang MAF to test while at the dyno, maybe i can get that dialed in while i am there.

Danno

Dyno is the key. Gimme a dyno-chart, your volt-in --> volt-out table and I can get you a chip that will require minimal adjustments with the piggyback. Better yet, send me the MAF and I'll flow-test it and create a chip to match..

Dave

Sam, Lindsey hides that well, after reading your first reply I went to their site to see what they had. Sellecting "MAF" will get you to a sales pitch for the MAFterburner and Perfect Power units that they want to sell you with the meter. It was only after I went back this morning for another look that I found what you are refering to, but I don't think it will help me. First, the Lindsey stage 1 is calibrated to match the output of a 951 AFM, as I understand it, the NA has a different AFM than a Turbo and I've looked into swapping a turbo AMF into my NA but couldn't find any info on compatibility. I have no reason to think that this will be as compatible in an NA. Second, If the unit is calibrated to match a 951 AMF it must flow the same amount of air at 4.6v, this means that it can flow a little more to get to 5v but that isn't much of a difference in flow. That would probably be a big enough improvement (maybe 8-9% more air flow than a 951 AMF) for what I want to do (flow almost as much air as a stock 951, but through an NA) but I can see why the turbo guys aren't interested. If they did one that was compatible with the NA, I'd be interested and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

RobL

Hey Danno, I'm Doze's friend. We own a business that dynotunes mustangs, the software we have allows us to control the MAF transfer function (the mass of air vs. voltage in) and all the fuel tables. So basically what you do is set a commanded air fuel ratio for load (ve) and then tweaks the MAF curve until you get there. The way the Ford EEC (computer) works is all load based, it measures the mass of the air going into the engine, and calculates the actual VE of the engine, everything else is based off of this, timing, fuel everything. If the MAF curve is not dead on then everything will be off. It’s more complicated than that, but I'm sure you get the idea.

A hot wire Ford maf (all of them for that matter, they are all made by hitachi) will output up to battery voltage, however a ford EEC only reads up to 5v (at which point it 'pegs' the meter and load falls off, the car goes lean and more spark is added in, which is why we switch to larger meters)

Now I'm not sure if the Bosche ECU in the 951's works the same way or not, you would probably know. What kind of software is out there to burn EPROM’s for these? Is it all hex editing or is their a GUI software? What kind of fuel control do they use in the ECU? Can you change the volume vs. airflow function it uses from the vane meter in the ECU? Does the ECU calculate load, or is it spark and fuel based off of airflow, TPS, and RPM?

Would it be possible to take a Pro-M air meter that comes with a flow sheet and correct the voltage vs. flow function in the ECU (if it works like that) to compensate? I can derive a 9-30 point curve from a flow sheet with a 4th level polynomial program if need be.

I'm NOT a huge fan of manipulating input signals to trick the computer, IMHO that’s bad. But I don’t know what’s out there as far as computer tuning goes for these cars, you obviously do.

As soon as Doze gets his car running right, I'm going to datalog Vane meter voltage vs. rpm, then switch to a 80mm Ford MAF and do the same.... If we had a way to change the function in the computer it would be EASY to get it right even without a control box of any kind.


Rob

kevin Dubois

just for reference, here is the wiring i used for the AFC:

red wire (power supply) goes to pin 18 on the DME
Green wire (RPM signal) goes to pin 21 on the DME
purple wire (knocking signal) i never plugged in because i was not sure which wire it was
gray wire (throttle signal) goes to pin 22 on the KLR
brown wire (ground) goes to pin 5 on the DME closer to the actual DME
black wire (ground) also goes to pin 5, but connected about 2 inches away from the brown wire
yellow wire (airflow signal output) goes to pin 7 on the DME, but cut the actual wire and splice this end to the DME
white wire (airflow signal input) also goes to pin 7 on the DME, only on the sensor side of the split wire.

Matt H

I prefer to have a MAF+chip only upgrade like the APE kits.

And where were you the other day when I was left defeding the honor of these by myself?

voltage, so for under $300 you have a plug and play MAF - I've mentioned it numerous times and noone's listened.

You would have to spend money at Lindsey that is enough to keep me away.
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toddk911

"Better yet, send me the MAF and I'll flow-test it and create a chip to match.. "

Danno, you still doing this?? ie. with out seeing a dyno chart??? Just send you the Universal/Ford, etc MAF and you can send back with chips to match,without any dyno sheets and no piggy back is needed??

toddk911

bump

Dark Lightning

For the record, this is a poor choice of grounds. The DME uses ping 5 to drive the reference mark sensor and you don't want to interfere.

A better choice would be pins 16, 17, or 19. All three are identical ground sources for the DME.

As soon as I get done with my S-AFC project this weekend I'll provide 951 color codes to aid in future installs.

hosrom_951

Kevin: So, how are things with the SAFC???

Dark Lightning

*cough* Check his sig, he sold his Porsche. *cough*

hosrom_951

crap..........

I was really interested in the way the S-AFC logs/displays knock (though he never hooked it up).....

Chris_924s

Hussam, I'll tell ya when it gets here..