Sami951

One thing that bothers me in GT3 is that it's really difficult to brake the cars loose, even if you select "drift" suspension. In that sense PGR2 is better... it really punishes you if you #½!" up, esp. when driving those ***-engined cars

Graufuchs

THIS IS THE ONLY GAME OUT THERE THAT IS CLOSE TO REALISTIC, I HAVE THEM ALL AND HAVE PLAYED THEM ALL!!!!! Get a wheel and pedals, 70 bucks and get the game 20 bucks....90bucks...simply camnnot be beat for realistic play...there is also a autocross part in which you can create your own layout and TWEAk programs to play with boost/cylinders ect....-chris

Rich Sandor

Okay, considering I've been making 3D models for racing games for the past like, 5 years, I think it's safe to say I know what I'm talking about.

A: Consoles are for games. Not sims. I don't care what any of you say or think - Grand Tourismo is a game, not a sim. Same with PGR.

B: If you want something that is be an honest simulation of the way a car handles at speed, you need a FAST PC, and a good Steering Wheel with Pedals. You can buy the Act Labs setup which also has a clutch and a shifter!

C: Porsche Unleashed is a great game to step into the Sim world of racing. It is realistic enough to really respond to throttle steering, and it's gots loads of tracks and cars, but it is still more game than sim. The physics engine is very advanced in PU, however the sim was toned down to be more playable for novices. Still a MUST HAVE game IHMO. No user made add-ons available. (skins don't count)

D: Live for Speed has a very good physics engine, although it is VERY limited in the different cars and tracks available. It's a step up in realism from Porsche Unleashed. Highly recommended. No add-on cars or tracks as far as I know.

E: F12002. You need a decent PC to run this gem. F12002 and the newest EA F1 title, are VERY good sims. The physics model is advanced and you can really tune the setup. Bu thte best part by far is the add-ons you can get. You can download FIA GTR2002 for free which includes another 10 tracks above the F1 season and Vipers,996s 993, Ferraris Lambos etc etc.. like I said though, it is a SIM and it's not easy to get into. However it is very advanced.

F: Lastly, the holy grail of racing sims: Grand Prix Legends. It is very dated now, and still you can only race basically 1967 F1 cars, however these were cars beore the advent of downforce. Thus, you are constantly in 4 wheel drifts and you REALLY need to throttle steer in order to go fast. The BEST part about GPL is that you can download litteraly ANY track you can think of, and race it. Including, the Nordschliefe aka the Nurburgring!!!

FSAEracer03

Porsche Unleashed is the most fun, almost realistic driving game out there.

Live for Speed is more realistic...

but THE most realistic is an older game that never caught on due to it's ~100 hour learning curve. It's called Grand Prix Legends (GPL). GPL has been commented on by 2 current F1 drivers and only hosts online racing to this day due to driving addicts and racecar drivers like Montoya and Vellenueve who swear by it. My boss claims that they help him keep in practice between races... but I think that's just his justification for buying the $300 pedals with hydraulically adjustable brake and clutch pedal

It was never actually advertised as a "racing game" but as a "racing simulator" as it didn't skimp out on any dynamics whatsoever. It's based on the 1967 season of Formula One and shows how damn hard those things were to drive! Tire compounds were ****ty, aerodynamics hadn't come into play yet... and they had power to light up the rears into 5th (or 6th depending on your team's gearbox)! You can download modifiers that allow you to put different engines and transmission into different chassis. You can get the latest online servers and race people online. You can even download ANY track in history from the original billion-turn Nurburgring to Summit Point Raceway. If you have the patience to learn it, it's crazy fun. I still can't seem to get within 10 seconds of any lap records... I think I will reinstall it and start playing again this summer. Online racing? Anyone??

[EDIT:] well crap... Rich beat me to the front of the line in prophesizing GPL

Deetz

Hey Rich and Kevin,

Got any links to this stuff?

also - Act Labs? is this it?
http://www.act-labs.com/Products/racingcombo.htm

and will those pedals work with plain "games" as well as the "simulators"?

Thanks guys - this is getting interesting!

Deetz

Rich Sandor

Deetz:

Yes! That is the Acts Labs I'm talkin' about. I've actually visited their HQ here in Vancouver and they are hardcore race-sim junkies! The Wheel and pedals will work as a regular joystick for any game, and the shifter can be configured as either a sequential style shifter, or you can modify the base plate for any amount of gears you want, 4,5,6 or 7+ etc

Here is a link to some good GPL tracks & stuff: http://trackdb.d2g.com/


Here is a screenshot of GPL back in 1998 as it looked on a high end PC:


Here is what the same track and car looks like with the add-ons you can download today:



VROC is the online GPL racing community. Always busy: http://vroc.net/

GPL++ is another track/car database with good links: http://gplpp.com/

And GPLEA is the famous maker of high-quality replacement cars for GPL and some really WICKED tracks, like Solitude: http://gplea.racesimcentral.com/




I'll find some F1 2002 links later

Rich Sandor

EA's F1 2002 and F1 Challenge 99-02 are (in order of age) the two best "add-on friendly" sims yet. In thier pure F1 form, they are the pinnacle of moderm F1 sims. I have the older F1 2002 and flying around Suzuka in full detail is realistic and fun. You can DEFINATELY apply what you learn about racing lines, setups, driving consistancy and mental & physical endurance to real life DE's.

For F1 2002, you can download "simbin's" FIA GTR2002 that adds a ton of GT and non-GT cars and a ton of tracks too. You can also get a great add-on that features the turbo F1 cars from the late 80's!!! TURBOS AND SLICKS BABY!!!

the newer F1 Challenge 99-02 has more mods available for it, including a grouppe C mod just recently released!!!



more links to come..


Anyways, in essence, I can tell you from experience that racing sims CAN help with DE for sure. It's much safer to push a car beyond its limits on a computer than on the street or even at a DE.

Rich Sandor

More F1 Challenge mod pics



ETCC mod for F1C:

Rich Sandor

here are some UNMODIFED original F1Challenge screenies:

hacker-pschorr

Rich, when you say "You need a decent PC to run this gem", what are the specs of your computer?

Processor
Ram - amount and type
Vid card, type and memory
HD speed
etc...

Rich Sandor

I have an Athlon 1.2 ghz. runs okay depending on how i set the detail.

1.5Ghz + to run it smoothly with weather and/or lots of cars on the grid.

GeForce3 or newer with 64MB is adequate..

I have 256MB ram

HDD and memory speed are actually not that crucial - it's the Graphics Card and CPU speed that count most for racing sims, since most stuff is all loading into memory before you start driving. (Unlike Flightsim, where HDD and memory speed are also important because it constantly loads up new scenery as you go.. not so with most race sims..)

iloveporsches

F12002 is great. Even after playing it for many hours, I still can't keep the car on the track without traction control on (hey, Schaumacher drives with TC!). I haven't messed around with the mods too much on it though.

Hacker,
Here's what my old PC that could barely run F12002 at the lowest settings and was still a little choppy:
P3 500mhz
256 MB SDRAM
GeForce 2 video card, 32MB?
5200RPM HD

New computer that runs it flawlessly with everything maxed:
Athlon XP 2400 (2.0Ghz)
512 MB DDR
GeForce 4, 32MB
7200RPM Hd

Rich Sandor

There you go.. that's a good benchmark. My system runs it okay and my system would be somewhere inbetween Brandon's systems.

hacker-pschorr

I know, just call me curious since I build my own PC's and like to see what other people use.

So my laptop with 2.5 P4, 64mb vid (nVidia?) XP pro and 1 gig of ram should be fine.

My tower is a 2.0 Athalon with 1gig ram, 32mb video card. Only issue is Windows 2000 Server, not very game friendly.

My local buy/sell electronics shop has that F1 game for like $10, guess I'll go grab it.

Rich Sandor

what are you waiting for!!!

(but get "F1 challenge 99-02'" if you can find it because it has more addons and slightly better graphics..)