Dal Heger

Yes, the third generation heads have a checkerboard pattern on the outside of the heads. The first generation don't, they have a smooth casting on the outside of the head.

I really wouldn't worry about it. The reason mine failed is that the tensioner went on it and (I think) the mech that "fixed" the head overtightened the head. That with the stress of the failure started the cracks and they just got worse over time. Unfortunately I bought the car without knowing about this and spent a lot of money "fixing" the previous owners mistakes.

Get a good car, with a GOOD PPI, take care of it and you should be fine.

REPLACE THE WHOLE TENSIONER ASSEMBLY IN THE HEAD BEFORE IT FAILS!!!
(before 100k miles)

Dal.

mossy

I think that Dal have just hit the nail on the head (excuse the pun....)
There really is no way to guarantee the maintenance on the car before you own it, so the only thing that you can do is check the condition of the valvetrain, head and belts as soon as you buy. I didn't and payed heavily.
The best thing to do is to replace the timing belt, timing chain and tensioner assembly as soon as you buy the car as a matter of course. Better to spend an extra couple of hundred for your own piece of mind than to risk the alternative.
When mine went, I got a complete replacement engine (because of piston and bore damage) that had covered 50,000 miles (documented). Before I put the engine in the car I still replaced the belts, chain and tensioner because I can now guarantee that it doesn't need to be done again for at least 50,000 miles. Job done - forget about it.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think that the 16 valve engines are unreliable. They do, however, cost more to maintain than, say, a Toyota's. Because of this, some people (understandably) don't carry out the kind of required maintenance that they should. Any inherrent problems that this neglect causes is passed on to the next owner.
Get a 16V Porsche engine. Spend a few days making sure that the servicing is up to date, then it will be as reliable as a Honda and much more fun!!!!!

mpw

Well, I've yet to see the car as the seller has been out of town, but so far everything sounds great. The seller is the orginal owner and has all the paperwork. In talking to him, he's been upfront about the maintenance (belts, tensioner, water pump, seals, and clutch were done at 90k, it's got 104k now), knows about the car in detail (I can tell he's a car guy who took care of the car), and problems (needs a new windshield becuse of a rock, the rear quarter was slightly damaged by another driver, and it needs new plugs and the belts tensioned). Luckily, I live in Northern Va, and there are a number of good Porsche shops around. I'm going to get a PPI of course, more likely than not at IMA Motorsport (based on other owners' recommendations). Thus far, it looks like I found a great car. I'm really hoping everything checks out, because I'm liking this 944 thing.

I'm well aware that I'm not buying a Honda, thank God. I'm looking forward to having a car that I can wrench on a bit, if need be. I'm also setting aside a few thousand dollars, for anything that might crop up, and for the routine maintenance I know this car needs.

Rally Guy

Sounds like you might have found a winner. Check for records of the clutch being done too - that's the "other" expensive project on a 944.

The tensioner is a huge deal if it breaks - but a cinch to replace on your own. Did mine in a couple of hours first time. Could do it the second time in minutes. But that won't be necessary for 100k miles!

Other than that - the 16v engines seem reliable. I'm at 260K kms and ~5% leakdown.

RK

mpw

The clutch was replaced at 90k with the rest of the stuff, he had a fairly major service at that point. Seems like just about everything was done, although I'm not sure which replacement clutch it was, the rubber or the spring version (the latter I guess is from the Turbo?). I'll be sure to ask him when I look at the car.

mossy

I agree, sounds like a good one.
I've never driven a 944 with a spring clutch, but simply the fact that it's been done means that it's one less thing to worry about.
Other things that can go (FYI) are valve stem seals (watch for smoke when the car is started from cold), front supension ball joints (this isn't Porsche specific, but I believe that the alloy wishbones can be damaged if it gets too bad) and of course, check power windows and roof.......
I really hope that it's a good one and that all this information helps you make an informed decision on your purchase of a great car.

seb928s

I think pretty much they are the same in reliablility if you keep the maintenance up to date. They are also close with the amount paid for the maintenance since the turbo has it's own parts and the 16V has it's own with the dual cam but if the timing fails then the 16V will cost a lot more to fix but that's not maintenance that is unkept up with the maintenance and shouldn't be part of a regular service you don't see that in the manual saying the valves need to be replaced and cylinder head fixed as your regular service.

pete944

Mine has that checkerboard pattern on the head. WooHooo!!
I hope you're right about that Dal.
Fishey noticed it and pointed it out to me. I looked at the head on his S2 cab and it is smooth. I think his car (1990) has the original head but I know mine doesn't due to a timing belt/chain disaster with it's previous,previous owner.

Dal Heger

What do you mean, HOPE?!?!?

Of course I'm right!

I've got the bills to prove it!

Been there, done that.

The MAJOR thing is to get to the tensioner before it breaks. The old head sucks, but it will hold together if it's babied.

Make SURE that the chain tensioner in the HEAD has been replaced. Not just the timing belt tensioner. If it hasn't get it done YESTERDAY! According to my records, the tensioner on my car failed at just over 100k miles. That's when all the problems started, then I bought it.

Dal.

pete944

That's what sealed the deal on this car. It has a new head, cams, chain, and tensioner. I even have a spare upper pad.

Fishey

Pete, I have a checkerboard head...

You can see it in this picture.


I was more under the impression that smooth head = S and Checker = S2

joseph mitro

I second that piece of advice and Dal can vouch how much trouble it is - both from his car and mine. my tensioner went dead three months after i bought the car at 117K, it cost me 3 months of time (this car was my daily driver) and $3500 in parts and labor to repair the head and install new (used) camshafts.

again, replace the tensioner YESTERDAY.

sound advice from those of us who have been there and done that

Fishey

How did both your tensioners fail? was it the normal top pad problem?

mpw

Yep, that's my plan if it hasn't already been done, which I'm 99% sure that it has. Thanks for the advice though.

joseph mitro

on my car, yes it was the top pad that failed. i have pictures of the fiasco posted on my website in case you're interested:

www.geocities.com/jmitro2000