Matt H

Well, a lot more than a 220 HP 3.0L.

I dont disagree that it is "cool" but for the kind of cash we are talking you could have a REALLY fast 951. There is something to be said for NA HP. Just too much cash to be a worthwhile investment unless you are building a race car or have lots of money to part with. Know what I mean?
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944JM

Any idea as to the VAT in question? Still trying attach a pic, just don't know how. Any help?

Geo

There should be absolutely no reason not to be able to make 250 bhp with the 2.5 liter twin cam. That's 100bhp/liter. I made that with my Sentra engine. Are you saying my Sentra engine is a better engine?

Matt H

For your application YEP. Actually, I would argue there are LOADS of "better" engines out ther if you are going to modify. The first on my list would be the B18C. ;>)
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ttwirz

Best engine I modified was a 110 hp .6 liter hung between 2 wheels pushing only 380 lbs (plus my weight) to stratospheric speeds.

The reality is the 8V na is the base engine. The S2 is an example of different head, different pistons achieving higher HP. It would be silly to think that you could make large hp increases with out making a large investment. If hp was the only criteria then simply buy a different car that meats the requirement. Yes my SC project is based on increase performance however the proccess, and enjoyment of building the car is also part of the enthusiasm. As has been stated Porsche designs their stuff really well The na had different requirements than the 951. I heard a design engineer from Porsche say "We are and engineering company that builds cars. If the engineering looks good then thats a bonus" evident in the front grill of the new 911. probably works good but looks not good.

kinda5150

other than lightening up the internals by either cutting away--crank and cam, or using exotic materials--read titanium everything, then i can't really come up with anything good. i know in airplane engines, at least the older ones, hollowed out the crank (to a point) and the cam. the crankcases were aluminum as were the separate cylinder heads (forgot the tech term), however the heads had chromed steel sleeves. from what i remember this was done to reduce friction. unsure if anyone has done this on a car.

Geo

So?

I don't think anybody ever said anything different.

The output of the 944 engines is nothing special. Sorry. I still believe that with a proper development program they could be made to make much more power. I see no reason the twin cam cannot make streetable 250bhp. The goal of 100bhp/liter for a road car is not the least bit unreasonable for a NA engine. The Porsche engineers were not magicians who produced engines us monkeys couldn't make more power with.

handscreate

Geez, I never thought that I would spark up such a conversation. To answer the question about how much the shop is going to charge me, I don't know yet. I am out of town until Monday when I will go to my machine shop and get a price. I'll post here and let you know.
However, with my car at the body shop right now (thanks to mister "sorry I "bumped" your car" (more like mangled it), the throttle body would just sit on shelf until I get the car back in a couple of weeks.
I'll keep you all posted as to wether or not I do bore the throttle body. And besides, the throttle body had the cam attached, so it's just an extra bonus. I've never complained about extra throttle response.

ttwirz

GEO,

I agree that 250 is not an unreasnoble request. I was simply trying to say that a different air cleaner and some headers are not going to get you there. There are so many posts from us NA owners wondering why we can't make our cars faster for a few bucks. If the na put out 250 then the posts would be wanting to go to 275 etc. Car makers including Porsche design cars to do an be specific things. The na was designed to be what it is and the more powerful S2 and 951 were designed to be what they are.

ttwirz

GEO,

I agree that 250 is not an unreasnoble request. I was simply trying to say that a different air cleaner and some headers are not going to get you there. There are so many posts from us NA owners wondering why we can't make our cars faster for a few bucks. If the na put out 250 then the posts would be wanting to go to 275 etc. Car makers including Porsche design cars to do an be specific things. The na was designed to be what it is and the more powerful S2 and 951 were designed to be what they are.

Geo

Oh, OK. I'm in total agreement with this.

ttwirz

I Finally got my Super Charger in. I took it for a test run and was amazed. I still don't have the correct injectors in but that will be coming soon. More power is an understatement. third and fourth gear acceleration is incredible.

johne

ttwirz,
Be careful running that car with stock injectors. If your chips are expecting 35 lb injectors and you have 27 lb or whatever then you will be lean across the board and your headgasket or worse will quickly go bye bye. If your chips are for stock injectors then your are in a little better boat. Due to the fact that they will supply the proper amount of fuel the best they can. You may run in to the problem of hitting 100% duty cycle though. I would call TIM and check with him before you do any more boosting.

John

PS Boost is great isn't it?

ttwirz

johne,
The chips are stock. I have an air/fuel meter to display if its running lean or not and an Arc II to make the fuel adjustments. I have a fuel pressure reg and turbo injectors that I will put in. I was just testing the install of all the other components. If the weather / temp cooperates I may be able to put them in next weekend.

FormulaOne10

I would really like to see some data on MAF upgrades for NA 944. Also, has anybody dynoed their NA with a high flow exhaust system including headers, high flow cat and muffler? I just purchased my S for track use and pretty much have all the suspension equipment and track equipment I need already. I'd be willing to spend a few grand on the engine for 20-30 horses if it was somewhat streetable. My upgrade path would be exhaust (cheap), cam (questionable street use), new valve springs, MAF setup and custom chip. The S already has most of its power up top and with a 16valve setup you can breathe pretty well up there. Problem is, it's unknown territory, and while I'd be willing to plunk down the cash for known gains...this is purely my own chance investment on engine development. However, I still believe the S engine has great potential due to its ability to breathe up top... I've been debating really tearing into the engine this summer and see what I can get out of it - its just that I'd rather spend the time enjoying the car at the track. The S really seems to be uncharted territory in performance engine development...maybe I'll do a bunch of writeups if I decide to go for it.