tifosiman

Ummmm..............OK. You may as well go ahead and get them custom embroidered too while you are at it. Provided you don't use too big of a font size you can probably fit "Candidate for Dain Bramage" on there.

Scott at Team Harco

I'm with Tifo on this. There are too many things wrong with this plan.

1) If you did not build the cage to the safety regulations of a specific sanctioning body, or to FIA (for example) requirements... and
2) you don't plan to participate in events that require such a cage (as you say: street, autocross, track days)...
3) why?

I can think of some possible reasons - but none of them offset the risk of very serious injury to you, or your partner, if something goes wrong.

I have built several cars for competition. And one of the first things that has to be answered; does it require a cage? The only time the answer comes back in the affirmative is for stage rally or road racing. If the answer is; no - then I ask will I benefit from a rollbar? A rollbar, or even just a harness bar (for 5, 6 point harness) has been the best answer for the remaining forms* of competition I participate in. These include: TSD rallies, ice races and RallyCrosses. Since street/road use is a part of getting the car(s) to/from the events (and by definition, TSD rallies are on public roads) - a cage is right out.

* except: an autocross/ time trial car, with a cage. But it is never used on the road - and always with a Snell SA approved helmet.

tifosiman

Agreed.

I used to have a stage rally car (if you remember the GLH that used to belong to Cal Landau and Eric Marcus) and in addition to some Divisional Pro Rally events I used to drive it to the occasional rallycross and do some TSD's with it. Having that cage in there scared the holy hell out of me even with all of the extra foam we had on the possible areas of contact. The minute I stopped doing divisional events I sold the car and used something different for rallycross and TSD rallies that didn't have a full cage.

The 944 in my avatar is only used for street/autox/DE so therefor it only has a 4-point roll bar in it.

Noahs944

You guys have your hearts in the right place, and your familiarity with race cars and 944 vehicles gives you credibility. There is something you haven't considered however; I built this cabin area *custom* for my intended purpose on daily driving without a helmet! All features of the cage is kind to legs & knees & head. Remember the seat is FIXED and back much further than stock (inspired by a modern Subaru pro level rally car). The pedals are modified 3" rearward, shifter is up and back & the steering wheel is like 4+" rearward. Please consider this. Its a different dimensional "fit" then an off the shelf 944 race car cage & seat.... which is why it took so long to massage everything into place. Mind you, I think I need to pad the throttle pedal a bit more.

So, I don't mean to be argue-mental... but for ****s sakes I built the car for my intended purpose, and since you guys are not coming around to my garage with your measuring tapes, I'd like to leave the "safety concerns of a street driving race car" out of this thread, because I KNOW BETTER than anyone. I sweated hard to make this sucker work.

Oh, and managed to retain air conditioning

Scott at Team Harco

Do what makes you happy. Just be safe. If we didn't like you - we wouldn't have said anything...

tifosiman

OK then, for ****s sakes I'll stop commenting on this thread.

Best of luck to you.

Noahs944

Tifosiman,
I'm sorry if I came off the handle a bit last night when I wrote that. Unfortunately, is the cumulative growth of frustration from several Rennlist thread relating to roll bars and cages. When I read your comment about brain damage (which was kind of funny but at the same time seemed a bit rude) I was going to suggest you get one embroidered "paraplegic candidate", because a 944 with a rollbar and 4,5,6 pt harness might make you one in a roll over where your neck might snap. In that scenario a 3 point harness is better because it's designed to allow head & shoulder movement.

Remember I had a Hanksville roll bar & began to study these things critically. My conclusion was every accident can be different (was it a side/front or rear collision? rollover? single or multivehicle?) and the best safety set up is dependant on that type of collision. Then I looked at the type of driving condition and environments I drive in and determined a cage was best (personal choice). When I say daily driver it includes lively back country jaunts in pretty rough terrain with deer and moose & cliffs & abrupt drop offs. My chances of a roll over is higher than a commuter or track racer.

Maybe I'll be spoon fed these words with brain damage. Heck it's possible!

The fact is I do value your input and I want your comments. Hardly anyone comments on my threads anymore, so I don't want to push you away.

Hopefully you understand. Peace guys.

odurandina

yeah, you gotta remove that front crash pipe

Noahs944

O, if you are referring to the "dash bar", I nor my driving partner can physically touch our legs to it. I think these got a bad rap from other cars and other kits, but this set up sound. I'm going to add padding anyway, but this has been discussed on other roll cage threads, like the one Paully started in the 944 turbo forum. Mine is good though!

Noahs944

I'll just leave this here... hopefully end the cage discussion. Her credibility is far FAR greater than probably anyone on this board. Unless you fellas have won a world title in Rally during the Group B years.

Noahs944

[QUOTE=Scott at Team Harco;15026817]I'm with Tifo on this. There are too many things wrong with this plan.

1) If you did not build the cage to the safety regulations of a specific sanctioning body, or to FIA (for example) requirements...

-Hey Brother, I should clarify that my cage meets SCCA spec. I originally aimed for FIA. And it would meet FIA except used a "Halo" hoop for easier fabrication. Most track events I plan on doing are "self check" anyway, and this is over built, so should have no problems.

tifosiman

I really don't know what the **** you are saying with that vid, that means nothing to this discussion..

And, Michelle Mouton did not win a world title. She won some events, but did not win the world title. I've been following World Rally since probably before you were born.

There, now I'm done with this discussion.. Feel free to keep posting. I won't see your posts anymore.

odurandina

The bar where your headliner meets the windshield.

Not good for a street car.

Are you really planning the turbo conversion? That's a juicey undertaking not for the squeamish.

Noahs944

Brother, yes the concern of head trauma was the #1 reason why I moved the seat as far back as reasonable. With the old set up (higher seat, less layback, 3" forward of what you see here), I felt it was too close... but with the current setup, once locked in with harness... that bar is a long way from the head.

Regarding Turbo stuff, I hope to start working on engine items within 2 weeks & will update. I made a mistake with is going to be a b*tch to correct, but doable.

Side note: but having the seat rearward it also makes the car easier for ingress/egress. Its still a workout, but the door bars turned out exactly as I had wished to help the occupants slide in and out.

Noahs944

ABSOLUTE STUNNER!
No car can not look better than this Italian tarmac super rally car.
Selling at a cool half million USD. I really like the interior of this build (see pics in the thread below), versus the somewhat messy interior of the Lancia, Audi Group B cars.
I give this a 10 out of 10. But 35 years later... in the near future... I will turn the ignition key, with my heart racing and my buttocks a'quiver... to feel ol' "Rough Life Wilson" vibrate & rumble.
And Wilson would give this Italian a run for the money if the opportunity presented itself.
Link to photos: http://buildraceparty.com/for-sale-group-b-ferrari-308/