Palting

Happy new year to all.

On my wish list is a track dedicated Porsche. Haven't quite decided if I'm serious about it, or just dreaming about it. But, I am keeping an open mind and want to learn as much about it as I can.

At the top of my list is a 951, preferably with track dedicated changes already done to it. I've just come across a stock 1994 968 with 64K miles. Usual wear and tear otherwise very well maintained and mechanically excellent according to the seller. They're asking $14.5K, I can probably haggle the price down. I don't quite know what to make of it. What do you guys think?

Z-man

While the 951 can be modified to go faster, Faster, FASTER, the 968 has some wonderful low-end torque, even in stock form.

If you plan on modifying your track car, then the 951 is the way to go. If you are 'satisfied' with a 240 well-balanced 968, then the 968 will make a perfect track car.

The maintenance costs on both the cars are pretty much even. The suspension modifications on them are virtually identical.

So, if you like flying down the straights, get a 951. If you like leaving cars in the dust in the exits of corners, and don't want to modify the powerplant too much, get the 968.

Oh yeah, it's really not that simple!
-Zoltan.

porklover

Personally, I'd rather have a 968 than a 951 as a track-day car, mainly because I'm a big fan of linear power delivery when trying to go quickly. Also, I would try and get the CS suspension pack for my 968 as it's the dog's b0ll0cks On the other hand, if you like the turbo boost back in the seat feeling, a 951 is where it's at, but you will have to change your driving style accordingly, i.e come into the corner on boost, or don't hit boost whilst in the middle of the corner - or though I've heard you can get away with this in a standard 951.

BruceWard

The 968 as most Porsches has a M030 option with stiffer suspension and bigger front brakes if your going to run in a stock class or want to avoid a custom setup then M030 is definately a winner. The M030 parts would cost at least $3000 perhaps even $5000 to fit to a non M030 968.

I am looking for a track car but am limiting my options to a mechanically cared for but asthetically challenged car. Personally I dont want to destroy a good one.

The other track car that is appealing to me is a 914. They have amazing handling but by modern standards are underpowered. A good friend of mine has a 993 engine planted in the middle of his 914. Externally it looks stock, it will out handle anything I know. A well maintained 914 could be a good place to start and then when more power or braking is needed make those upgrades. A well cared for 914 will be half the price of that 968, which by the way is a good price.

Palting

Thanks for the replies, all.

It's bone stock, has a busted radio, and some lower body/bumper scars. You could say it is mildly aesthetically challenged on the outside. Aside from the radio, the inside is pristine. I just took the car for a prolonged test drive. Was able to get to some open spaces at 110 mph and a few decent curves. It's solid as a rock and flat as a pancake. I actually got the back to break loose a bit on WOT on curves. Can't do that on my C4S. The clutch pedal seems to be binding a bit, but all mechanicals seem excellent.

The dealer wants to do some body work and bring the selling price up, but will sell as is for 14K. Very tempting. I'm torn between getting this car and upgrading it performance-wise, or save the money for repairs/upgrades on the C4S.

MM951

I say negoatiate a little bit and buy the car. It would be an awesome addition to a 911.

DerSchlechtSpecht

Im sure you could bring them down to 13K, with the aforementioned ailments in mind.

Christian

Z-man

The C4S, while a fantastic car, isn't the most ideal car for the track: no matter what you do, the car will always exhibit a good dose of understeer.
(Not to mention the C4S's inability to break the back end out, like you mentioned! )

While in stock form a 968 also exhibits understeer, all you need is a thicker sway bar in the rear, wider tires in the front, and you have a very neutral handling car.

Bottom line: IMHO, it is easier to 'make' a 968 into a fun DE / track car than your C4S.

-Z-man.

hdemas

Get an older 911. The 968 is too well-mannered--won't be all that much different than the C4S you already have. You can get Carrera's in ok condition for track use for about the same as the 968 you are looking at. They will have higher mileage, but the 911's are more robust as track cars--for instance, they don't have issues with the oil pick-up like the 944's. The other issue you need to determine is what you are going to do with it--do you want it to fit in one of the time trial or club race classes and be a reasonably competetive car? That's something to consider and look into before buying a car you intend to use on the track.

Robby

Lot's of variables here- a 968 w/M030 is AWESOME for a track car- if it didn't have that weird-*** gearing it wouldbe an excellent street car too- Porsche really missed the mark on that one, BUT, for track use, shoert straights at least, that gearing is probably better- the 6-sp is stronger than the Turbo S 5-sp & is sometimes used in high powered 951's- it's much stronger supposedly & I believe it- at a slight weight expense- of course, part of that is the extra gear & it's at the rear of the car- less the intercooler up front (since no turbo), it has a better weight dist than a 951- ESPECIALLY the M030's w/their helper springs at rear- it's ~48.5/51.5 vs Turbo S 51/49.... The M030 is really the way to go if possible- Bruce's estimate of ~$5K is probably pretty low- if you had to buy larger brakes to get the 928S4 fronts (although MOST would go for BR's probably) you would spend close to $2K before it was over, ALSO, you'd need the 17" rims which came on those cars AND all the sup stuff- the sways, bushings, shocks, springs, T-bars (were they the same as all Turbo, Turbo S, etc? 25.5mm?) helpers, etc- I'm thinking that $5K for all of this w/much of it being bought usesd would be at LEAST $5K, so, if you can find it, get the option- otherwise, you can try to find stuff on the used market & possibly make better mods to it, although not much better- for isntance, if concerned about weight, you could get the 17" 993 wheels instead of the normally used 17" C2's for the 968- the LATER 968's w/M030 came w/17" 993's, but I don't think many had them- most people end up w/17X7 fronts this way though, whereas the 968's came w/17X7.5's, but I'm not sure the extra wheel width helps any- not sure which is better- the extra width of 7.5 or lighter weight of 7.0 (a pound or so), considering they both wear the same size tire...Also BR's instead of Turbo S/928S4 brakes are preferable for a track car & are actually cheaper to buy seperately unless you find them used....

Sorry so long- just some personal thoughts- I love the 968's overall & I think it would be a great track car, only, they're usually pretty pricey as the 968's held their value MUCH better than 944/951's- otherwise, a nice 951 should be possible for much less, but, that's not what you were asking about & even if you DID get a Turbo S, the M030 for the 968 is DIFFERENT (BETTER) than the M030 for Turbo S- most Turbo S owners (like me) try to go to 968 M030 stuff...I'm doing this right now.... Luckily though, 968 sways have come down in price & the pair can be had for ~$500....

Damian in NJ

Robby, minor nit-pick-the 7x17's use a 205 tire, the 7.5x17's on a 968 use a 225.

Robby

Damian- are you SURE? If so, that's kind of odd- well, maybe not- did the 968's have 16x9's w/245/45/16's like the 944 Turbo S? What size did they have otherwise? A 225 on an 8" wide rim? WHAT I really meant was, that like the Turbo S, most people would put a 225 on a 7" rim- it fits perfectly- when the 968 went to the 7.5" the tire of choice was a 225- you could get a 235 on a 7.5" but there's really no correct match for profile b/c you're stuck b/t a 45 & 50 for a 16" wheel & a 40 & 45 for a 17"- although the RD & profile difs are minimal... Anyway, I wouldn't do anything BUT a 225 on a 7" Porsche wheel- I think Porsche did a great job balance-wise w/the 17" wheel option on 968's- the 245 is a little small on the 9" wide wheels, like the Turbo S- especially since the 225 fully fills out the 7" front- they either should have had an 8" OR 8.5" wheel for the 245 OR gone w/a 255 or 265 for the 9"- the 968 went w/the 255 & then backed up the 225 w/.5" more wheel- that's about perfect for balancing out the LOOKS of the two wheel/tire combos...

Robby

WAit, you said "17X7 uses 205..."- the 968 never had a 17X7 that I'm aware of- did you mean 16X7? At any rate, the 225 is really the right tire for the 7" wide wheels since the Turbo S used it effectively- I know of some who've had 205's on front & said the braking suffered acccordingly- the 911's had smaller fronts, but, they were rear engine & while the front wheels STILL do the VAST majority of work under braking, they DO have a LITTLE less overall imprtance & use the rears a HAIR more, so, can therfore get away w/the smaller fronts...

Damian in NJ

Robby, you said both 7 and 7.5 17" wheels as used by the 993 and 968 use the same size tire. I just pointed out that the tires are different, 205's on the 7, and 225 on the 7.5. Some 968 guys do run the skinnier wheels, as the 7.5 17 fronts are quite rare, but you're giving up some tire doing so. (Of course the 7 993 wheel is skinnier as there isn't as much weight to carry opposed to a 968).

jc22

Just remember that low-end torque means squat on the track in a properly prepped and driven car. Your rpm should never be below 4K and there isn't any significant lag at those rpms in a stock turbo'd 951. Personally I was disappointed in the mid- and high-range power of the N/A car even a 3 liter. 968 is a better road car, 951 is a better race car platform IMHO.