I've been running MetalMasters for about a year or more, and I have not really been at all impressed by their performance. . soft pedal, etc.
What's worse is that they are super noisy, not brake squeal noisy, but -clunk-clunk-clunk- noisy.

Now that I am employed again I am considering upgrading to the KFP Magnum pads (Gold I think?). From what I read in the archive, these are a bit dusty and noisy, but top performers. Are they too much for the street, or OK to live with?

 

They are good. They dust like crazy and squeal quite a bit, but they work good when they are cold and don't wear the rotors much. You just have to learn to love the city bus brake sound. Instead of self-consciously trying to reduce the volume of the squeal when moving slowly through traffic, I would actually try my best to get the most volume and best tone.

Go for it! They blow the performance of the Metalmasters out of the water.

 

As long as you know about the dust and squeal problems, they are a great pad. I would never run them on a street car though. I'm surprised to hear your troubles with the Metal Masters. You elude to clunking, which may well mean that the pads were not entirely seted when the final bleed was done. This would account for the seemingly soft pedal (not normally a function of any friction material) and also the clunking sound. Both the front and rear pads have to be *pressed* into position on the outer side.

Also, there is a specific position that the caliper pistons must be set to - if you have the manuals, refer to the brake section. In some cases, this can cause chattering pads and uneven wear.

 

I run the KFPs on the street. But I really only drive to autocrosses and track events now. The do squeal and dust alot, but they are leaps and bounds in performance over the cheap stock replacement pads that were on the car previously. They do work cold, but I find that one good stop is necessary to bring the temps up enough so they work like they're supposed to.

I destroyed a front set on my first trackday though. They were charred and eaten away to nothing when I was done. I assume this is because I braked earlier than I was supposed to and heated them up to much.

 

I also use the KFP's, and besides what was mentioned above (noise and dust), I have found them to be very rotor friendly. Two fulll DE and autocross seasons, and my rotors have not warped one bit, even though the fronts are now below the recommended minmum! (thinner rotors tend to warp quicker)

They have excellent bite on the track and street, and if you can live with the noise, they are fine.

Ken: I am surprised you went through a set after only one track day: mine usually last about 1/2 a season (3-4 events, 6-8 days!). Perhaps you were riding your brakes a bit?!? That makes them nice and warm and can destory them... We'll talk at the next track event about braking points, and compare notes! (Psst: they're trying to convince me that late braking is the way to go, and I'm buying into it!) Are you going to Lime Rock April 1-2?

-Zoltan.

 

FYI, I used the KFP's with a new rotors, then switched to Metalmasters when the KFP's were nearly half worn. I switched back to the Metalmaster ~5,000 miles later on the same rotors, and experienced significant green fade. Once everything got hot and was allowed to cool back down, they worked great yet again. My experience suggests that running Metalmasters on the street, and switching to KFP's for the track, utilizing the same rotors, is not a good choice.

 

I too am running the KFP golds on recommendation of Z-man, Ken, Dave and a few others.

They held up great at a 2 day event on the north course @ Pocono with 2 drivers.

Yes, they squeal and dust plenty...but they stop!

At that 2 day pocono event I was outbraking a guy in front of me in a boxster S. Maybe he wasn't really getting on the brakes as hard as I was, I dont know. But for those that have run the course (clockwise), when you're coming off the straight, there's a little kink of a right turn...then another short straight then HARD braking. In that braking zone, I was gaining on the boxster S every time.

That pocono event was only my 2nd DE and my first DE on the pads, so I cant say how long they'll last.

Also, you want to clean off the wheels regularly to keep the brake dust from eating into your wheels...

As for too agressive for the street...well that really depends on the user. Can you tolerate squeeling and dusting?

 

Skip, thanks - that's interesting. I'm going to take a look at my current ones to make sure they're seated properly before I go buying new pads.


If that fails, I don't think I'de mind the squeal of the KFP all that much if they grip as well as everyone says they do!

 

Z, I'm definately going to try and make Lime Rock. My goal this year is to do every DE I can. I'd definately appriciate the help when I get there.

It is strange that they were so toasted. My car is probably 4-500 pounds lighter, so they should wear less than yours. My instructor did say that I was braking earlier than necessary, but I really don't feel I was braking that much earlier than I could be. Take the main straight at The Glen. I would hit about 110-115 by the end and would brake between the yellow light and the 300ft sign. I tried to move it up but didn't feel comfortable braking after the 300ft sign.

I think I will be alot better next year with this because of the race seat/harnesses and a good pair of driving shoes. It's difficult to brake to the max when you're using your feet to hold you in the seat.

To be semi on-topic. Does anybody use the KFP Purples? They're supposed to be a higher temp, more track oriented pad(with less friction than the golds though)

 

schlag - if you dont track the car the noise might be too much for the benefit. You WILL have people tell you that your brakes are no good. IIRC, these were VERY noisey on my street car. I couldnt care less any more but if you drive, say to a nice restaurant people will stare.
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Are these the KFP you guys are talking about?

http://www.smartcart.com/Paragon/cgi...tem_num=944KFP

 

Besides the price what are the pros/cons of these compared to KFP and metalmasters?

http://www.smartcart.com/Paragon/cgi..._num=944PagidS

 

Yes, those are the KFP Gold pads (Carbon/Kevlar - "Magnum")

The Pagid S are the same formulation as the old "blue" pads. As you may have already read, the corporate blurb says something about rotor friendly, medium-friction (relative to others in the Pagid line), low dust, sport application, etc.

The real story is that these are as "racey" as they get without all the dusting, squealing and low cold-friction nonsense as inherent with full-boat race pads. A pad for the street car that can perform on the track. User opinions vary, but have been largely positive. Some user comments can be found here in the rennlist forums (911, 924/944/968, 951 specifically) and on 968.net.

 

Thanks Skip..so basically $300 bones for both axles.....maybe Ill stick with the metalmasters and use the difference for a rear welt bar :_) $214

 

I think driving style has a lot to do with pad selection. If you do a fair amount of autocross / DE driving, it's probably worth forking over the bucks for some "race" pads. They really do perform better than stock pads. If your driving mostly on the street with occasional event driving, stick with a more street orientated pad.

As for one pad better than others, I think that comes down to personal preference. I loved Ferodo pads until I tried the Porterfield. I've had other people tell me that the Porterfields aren't as good. You have to decide on your own.

Matt