944S2NUT

They dont recommend it if you LOWER the car. Other then that it really makes no diff.

Adam Richman

Like patrat is saying, irrespective if a 16" wheel and 18" wheel weigh the same, it takes more work to turn the 18" wheel due to its weight being further out from the hub. I believe my S came w/ 15x7 phones (think they are 17-ish lbs.) and my next race tires will definately go on these (245/50-15) not my BBS 16" rims (18lbs./18.8lbs). Personally, I love the look of the 17" rims and would think they are great for the street where the shortened sidewall would be nice but for the track (or auto-x) where the sidewall stiffness of a race tire is so much stronger, I'd take the smallest dia wheel I could run for performance reasons.

MTM

If the entire car weighs about 3000 lbs, wouldn't the amount of work it takes to turn the 45-pound wheel plus tire be very insignificant?

Robby

It might not be TOO big of a deal, BUT, rotational & unsprung weight is worth more than weight elsewhere- also, the extra rotational & unsprung weight (of which, wheels are BOTH) makes the ride rougher. Anyway, the standard rule is supposed to be 1lb = anywhere from 2-20lbs- I'd say much closer to 2, but possibly as much as 5lbs, although it's hard to mesure so quantitatively....

inactiveuser92616

Weight in the wheels and rotors is about the worst place to have weight. It takes HP to keep those weights spinning, so the more that is rotating the more HP you spend on that. It has more inertia, so its harder to get turning in the first place (and harder to stop spinning)

PLUS it is unsprung weight, which decreases ride quality and suspension control.

TaylorSea4

I'm kinda surprised (impressed, really) where this thread went. YES, Sami's car looks badASS, as do most 944's with 18's. BUT as Pat, Matt (he who draws a paycheck from a rubber giant), Robby, and Adam all said, inertia is a thief, baby. Unsprung weight is BAD, unkaaay?

Hell, Sami said his car sucked with 19's (okay, he did'nt say 'sucked' but I got that impression). No, on a big Viper or a Z06 Vette you don't notice the wheel/ tire weights. I'm sure the engineers made that compromise in the interest of putting 400+ hp to the asphalt. But most guys here don't have 350hp cars, so ALL that extra unsprung weight is just robbing you of the experience.

I'd say find some 911 Fuchs. According to Robby's numbers, they're as light as anything on the market, the looks are right on, and the sizes mean tires won't cost you a fortune. Just my $.02, I could be wrong...

944S2NUT

Not everyone one who owns a 944 wants to race their car. Some ppl want to keep them in mint shape and at the same time have a little fun with the cosmetics. So wheel wieght is irrelevent. <--- spelling.

.03c

Jakerx

im plannin to go with 18 inch Veilside Andrew Evolution V rims....they're pretty lightweight and look really nice....not as nice as most porsche rims but a lot better than my phonedials. haha. i attached a pic...

Jakerx

here's the other one im looking at...the andrew racing V....

UDPride

Great post on those wheels and weights. What I found interesting and certainly impressive is just how well the 951 Fuchs stand up to that list. Thats why 17yr old rims cost an arm and a leg.

Robby

Several things... first, there are SEVERAL areas, as have been mentioned, that the rotational & unsprug weight DO hurt- acceleration, of course, but also, (as was mentioned, braking (it IS more difficult to slow the wheel, takes more energy, takes a hair longer to stop it & builds up heat throughout the brakes much faster), but also, gas mileage, handling & ride quality. OKAY- as for the Viper's, etc- this is true, they DO have more HP/TQ & can handle it a little more- they ALSO NEED more rubber b/c their incredible HP/TQ overwhelms the tires so easily, AND, they are heavier cars to begin with, so, the extra couple pounds here & there wont hurt as badly as on a lighter car- HP:weight ratio, etc.... BUT ALSO, I'm pretty SURE these cars have full multi-link suspensions, like E36M3's, etc.... A multi-link seems to be able to deal w/the extra weight a lot better- multi-links are harder to stiffen up completely (more stuff) but, you can stiffen up some areas & keep some softer bushings, etc & have lot's of road irregularities absorbed, etc- also, the multi's biggest benegit is perhaps it's ability to allow a wheel to move up & down & not have the tires change camber, as on a 951 or something w/much less technolgically advanced susp.

Anyway, you are ALSO correct about the larger tires being more- they can really add up- not only in purchase price, but also in mounting & balancing, etc- those bigger, wider wheels are a lot harder on tire machines & are almost always charged more for....

BTW- UDpride- I agree about the Fuchs, etc- the thing about the Porsche wheels, is, ALL of them are PRETTY light, for their size, when you consider both their diameter AND widths, PLUS, their overall strength- they are all very strong wheels- the dif b/t some of the lighter Fikses, for instance, of the EXACT same size as say, the forged Club Sports, is only a couple of pounds- <5lbs probably for sure- these lists, BTW, were done by various people's weights, & in some cases, you will see multiple sets of the same wheels weighed & vary by several pounds, so...I'm not too sure of ALL of the lighter weights, but.... I'm thinking that for ~3-5lbs total for hte EXACT same size, (a GREAT weeight reduction) that the amount of $ would NOT be worth it- some $4K PLUS, the strength of many of the aftermarkets aren't as great as that of the Porsche wheels... I really don't think it's worth it at all, unless you have tons of $ AND actually like the LOOKS of the aftermarket wheel better- I really like the factory wheels better as far as looks go & I'm content in knowing I also have strong wheels.... It's all an opinion thing...

Friendan

Dammit Sami, yours is still the nicest 951 I've seen...love the colour, love the rims, redout lights, euro spec, clear lenses... I have alot of pics of ur car!!!

Robby

I like it too- there are really some beautiful cars on this list- I wish I could get mine looking so good- I'm currently looking forf some 17" 993s & am hoping to get the $ to repaint the whole car eventually... Waiting on all kinds of things as I write this- I've also got as BUNCH of new parts sittting beside me that need to go on along w/my new suspension... I plan to post when I get THAT on there- hopefully THIS week....

Adam Richman

Logically speaking (ergo, I am not a physicist nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night) w/ larger rims its a concern over rotating mass, not unsprung weight. Unsprung weight to my knowledge is much more of a concern in handling than acceleration (determines the reaction rate of the unsuspended part of the car). A fair percentage of unsprung weight is not rotating mass (control arms, calipers, tie rods, shocks, etc). You will not notably affect acceleration with these things and sometimes, they are worth an addition or beefing up. But when you push a slug of material (outermost edge of the rim) further out from the hub, it is harder to get it to begin to rotate and harder to get it to slow down its rotation (I am visualizing a seesaw). So even though you may find an 18" wheel that weighs the same as a 16" wheel, the 16" is easier to rotate and slow to rotate.

As for other, newer cars w/ very large wheel diameters, it is often done to fit larger calipers. Would pushing the wheel diameter on a rather modded 951 by a couple inches be a massive change? Probably not. The more power you put down, the less you'll probably feel this effect. But as for a car w/ stock boost, I think you are best off trying to keep the wheel diameter as close to the hub as possible. Anyone know if VW GTI wheels fit the late offset 944s? Man, I'd love a 13lbs. 15x7.

Matt H

azn - where do you plan to get them drilled? They dont make either in a 5X130. Are you buying blanks?
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