Cyrus951

That's why the commercials say "People who test drive a Saab, usually buy one"

Robby

Interesting about the WRX's- I wouldn't have expected that, ESPECIALLY w/a modded one- AWD DOES have a lot more drivetrain loss, AND, I've been told that they don't FEEL quite as fast as they are, but, it sounds like either the WRX's you drove weren't at the top of the assembly line heirarchy, OR, the ones that have been tested were good strong examples or something- this is not abnormal- many cars do have a wide range of tolerances, etc, which leads to a large variance in performance b/t cars of the exact same model...

I'm wondering, why does she want to get rid of the GTi? I like the idea of putting a few grand into THAT engine & rebuilding it- it can get pricey, but you can make MONSTERS out of those- I think their limits are MUCH higher than 951s, although, again, they're really expensive- EIP has them hitting almost 800HP w/AWD. I've always liked the old 16v Gti's (late 80's) & VR6's, especially Corrados, only they needed a taller FD like the Jetta/GTi VR6- I'd like to that FD & a slightly taller 4th & 5th & throw an extra gear on top for a nice 6-sp w/a turbo charged >3.1 - 3.6L bad-***, but.... $$$ A friend of mine started w/an '88 GTi 16v w/major susp mods & many other misc things- he eventually went through 3 VR6 Corrados (2 late 93's & one 94) & a '95 Jetta VR6- had full susp mods on all of them- all basically the same stuff- he also did chips, TB, & cone filter for all- except the Jetta didn't get a TB.

If you know these cars, then you probably know the Corrado is faster than the others (GTi & jetta) by a few tenths at the 1/4- the first '92 Corrado tested in R&T OR C&D(?) ran a 15.0 @ 94 & 0-120 in 29.x seconds- the Talon AWD turbo was compared in that test & ran a 15.1 @ 93 & 0-120 in 41.x seconds(!). Well, the Corrado weighs ~50lbs less than early Jetta & GTi VR6's- it also has shorter gearing via shorter FD (3.65 vs 3.38 IIRC) & has slightly more HP/TQ (178/177 vs 172/173). Now, w/the EXACT SAME engine mods, my friends Corrado's SHOULD have been at least a little faster than his Jetta, ESPECIALLY since the Jetta didn't even have the larger TB. Well, that Jetta would DEFINATELY faster- in every area in every gear, at every speed, all the way up.... His Corrados were strong too- In all honesty, I'd wager his Corrado's would have run a 15.0 or slightly better if launched correctly, etc, but, that Jetta would have at least 2 - 3 tenths on it. I drove a 944S2 during the same time frame & the Jetta felt faster than it- the S2 is usually a hair under 15.0- anyway, we had that Jetta up to ALMOST 150 one night- it was just a HAIR under, so, ~149 & it was all out. Unfortunately, I was never able to check times for any of them, as this was pre-G-Tech era.

But my point is about the Jetta being stronger- the fact is, if you were to take 20 VR6 Jettas off the assembly line- say, the one I'm talking about & the next 19, & do all the performance tests, you would find that 1 or 2 would be faster than all the rest- probably HIS. Then, 3 or 4 would be slower, & the rest would fill up the middle ranges- b/t the very fastest & slowest, you would probably have a range of at least a full half second. I remember a ZR1 that was tested, right when the HP was raised to 405- the originals were 375- the 405 ran a 13.6 or 13.8 & the 375 one the SAME magazine (I THINK R&T) tested several years before, had run a 12.8 or 12.9- they ADDED 30HP & ~20TQ & slowed down by almost a FULL second(!?). Production variances- American cars are pretty bad about it too- moreso than euro & Japanese cars I believe- the Mustang Cobras had a little run-in w/their advertised HP being higher than reality, so ford quit making the Cobra for ~half year- I think it was 2000- they eventually came out w/a bad-*** Cobra later that year that made ~400HP & ran just over 170- it was ~$55K IIRC... Sorry to ramble, but, I suspect that the WRX & many others are suffering from this- it's ALSO possible that the WRX's don't hold their HP/TQ for some reason, after they've been broken in, which IS odd, since cars normally get FASTER when broken in.... maybe there's something that goes wrong in them like a vaccum leak or something....

sybelix

There is a Saab 9-5 Aero in the family, it is a great touring car,
240 hp with automatic, cruise, AC etc etc.
The power is there, and it is really quiet and easy to drive.
Also well built and stylish. I do recommed.

Robby

Nice car, but why not the Viggen? Same car, but much faster... Not sure about the rest of the performance, but, it COULD very well have susp & brake upgrades, as well(?)....

Burma Shave

Robby- she doesn't want to get rid of the gti but it's out of warranty and our local dealer sucks big time. Mini is closest to fitting her criteria although we're on the list for an r32...have to wait and see. I bought the 951 for me to play with and also to get her on a racetrack, so we need one car with no mods and a warranty(but still fun) for travelling etc. I think wrx is mostly hype. European cars require more service, but percieved quality is far superior, and at 80 to100mph cruising speeds japanese cars just don't compare.

Luis de Prat

Weren't the Saab 900 series cabriolets built in Finland? Those cars were cool.

sweanders

Yep, same factory as the Boxsters.

Robby

R32 sounds cool, but, is still a letdown- ALL of VW is IMO- I mean WTF? They had >190HP/TQ out of 2.9L VR6 12YRS ago in '92!!! Tuners got ~270HP/TQ out of 3.1L's in early 90's & then REALLY raised the bar w/forced induction- NOW they have 24v VR6 & KEPT the short stroke w/2.8L & BARELY break 200HP/TQ....

R32 is NICE- GREAT full package car, BUT, it STILL only has ~245HP/TQ (IIRC)- that's not as much as tuners got YEARS ago.... Annoying- kind of like most car makers- they COULD have unleashed much more power in cars, but, they're always leaving room to give an extra 10 or so measly HP that not only doesn't make the car faster, but, actually slows it down b/c of added weight from BS stuff like right & left ******** air bags so they can jack the price up a few grand too... They VERY WELL could have turned out a 3.1L VR6 Corrado w/>250HP/TQ in '93 or '94 & added syncro, keeping the weight to ~3000 even (stock Corrado VR6 weighed 2980lbs test) & hasd a BAD ***, but NO...... The tuners have to shell out >$30 just to get a basic VR6 corrado w/engine mods total- adding susp & brakes, not to MENTION AWD would set back $1000's more... Another thing is, the R32 wont be any faster than the original Corrados really- they're supposed to be running just <15.0 @ 1/4- that's not very impressive- the price & all their other cool features make them nice, BUT, the price is SURE to be jacked up by high demand & low output- I'm not sure what the final figuires will be, but I'd say it will be >$30K & the performance figures could be slightly better than what I've seen, but, I'd want at least Turbo S performance for accel which really isn't that fast anymore.... Who knows though? Maybe it will be easy to get a few more ponies out of w/out voiding warranties or messing up reliability....

I like the Saab convertibles- they just need a nice tunable turbo version w/beefier susp & brakes- I've never seen much of an aftermarket for Saab- that would be cool- I like the cars....

Olli Snellman

They also build 9-3 series cabriolets.
Nowadays all Saab cabs are built in Austria.
They even built limo versions of Saab 99 & 900 modeles here in Finland

sybelix

Robby, sorry but you are talkin' about a smaller Saab-model, the 9-3 !
Ours is the bigger, 9-5 ! And Aero is the top model in that range !

Robby

Oh, I see- but, don't the 9-3's come in Viggen AND Aero? I didn't actually tihnk of the Viggen as being the top model, per say, just sporty vs luxury kind of.. but, I never knew too much about them- nice performers, but, ouit of my league & for the $$$, an Audi S4 would be in about the same range- those were my favorites- until they dropped the V8's in them that is...

sybelix

Yup, the 9-3 did come Viggen on the "top" and Aero right behind it. But don't know the current newly produced 9-3. I've seen only Aero in the new 9-3 series.
But the 9-5 series is significantly a bigger car, and the sportiest and fastest 9-5 is an Aero. Pretty darn expensive though.

slinky

We have the 9-3 Sport Sedan (Vector model) and we love it.

I have to admit, I hated Saabs before we started car shopping, and I was reluctant to even walk into the dealership, but once I drove it, I was sold. It ended up being my favorite of all we drove (Mercedes, Volvo and Audi).