OT: why is a honda Civic a sports car?
12-09-2003, 09:41 AM
#61
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Sure there are plenty of riceboys out there. But as I said, someone who knows what they are doing with a Civic with smoke a 944 on a road course. They can be made to handle exceptionally well and they are significantly lighter than the 944. Hell, it's interesting that Porsche used to be the one building the small, lightweight cars. Not anymore.
I'm sorry, but the same can be said of many Porsche owners as well. This thread is a good example.
well you kinda cut and pasted.....i also said their are exceptions.....maybe you didnt read that part of it
As I said, I'm no fan of Honduhs. I've owned two and that was quite enough for me thanks. I've always been a fan of Porsches. That said, I respect what can be done with a Civic, and once you start modifying it (done correctly), you find it has an extremely competent chassis and you can easily and cheaply drop in a fabulous engine (the vtec twin cam Integra engine - can't remember the designation). [/B][/QUOTE]
so you are basically saying what i have been all along.......honda civic is a good car ....and with some tastefull mods....it can be made into a great car with great performance......but that still doesnt make it a sports car does it(or hell maybe i am missing my own points here
)
as far as everything else that was said....i basically agree more or less.
i will end the happy car debate with one final question.....because my last and really most passionate remarks were about owners......do you honestly think that a typical honda owner is of the same caliber as a typical porsche owner??(and no i am not talking about money)....i cant tell you how many honda guys i have ran into(lost count)......but you wanna know how many of them sounded like dip****s.....well damn near all of them....maybe one of two that i can recall that actually had something of merit to say.I guess ultimately that is my only real problem with honduh's .....it the fact that most of them dont merit proper respect.Most of them have type r stickers in the window with the big combat wing out back....and their music(if you can call it that) booms so loud my car shakes a little and i cant hear myself think......so i roll down my window and signal the honda civic guy ....as he roll's down his window he says "sup fool" nice porshhh is dat thing fast at all......lets roll from the light i am running 3 *****'s deep but, i bet i will smoke yo ***!
maybe if more honda guys were like you geo....i might not have such a problem......until the next civic i roll up to with a wing on i will assume he is a moron and try to let it go when he hits his rev limiter reving his car at me at the stop light.cause i will remember their are guys like you...that arent complete and total idiots.
to the discussion and i really appreciate your opinions.......you can debate with me any time
I'm sorry, but the same can be said of many Porsche owners as well. This thread is a good example.
well you kinda cut and pasted.....i also said their are exceptions.....maybe you didnt read that part of it
As I said, I'm no fan of Honduhs. I've owned two and that was quite enough for me thanks. I've always been a fan of Porsches. That said, I respect what can be done with a Civic, and once you start modifying it (done correctly), you find it has an extremely competent chassis and you can easily and cheaply drop in a fabulous engine (the vtec twin cam Integra engine - can't remember the designation). [/B][/QUOTE]
so you are basically saying what i have been all along.......honda civic is a good car ....and with some tastefull mods....it can be made into a great car with great performance......but that still doesnt make it a sports car does it(or hell maybe i am missing my own points here
)as far as everything else that was said....i basically agree more or less.
i will end the happy car debate with one final question.....because my last and really most passionate remarks were about owners......do you honestly think that a typical honda owner is of the same caliber as a typical porsche owner??(and no i am not talking about money)....i cant tell you how many honda guys i have ran into(lost count)......but you wanna know how many of them sounded like dip****s.....well damn near all of them....maybe one of two that i can recall that actually had something of merit to say.I guess ultimately that is my only real problem with honduh's .....it the fact that most of them dont merit proper respect.Most of them have type r stickers in the window with the big combat wing out back....and their music(if you can call it that) booms so loud my car shakes a little and i cant hear myself think......so i roll down my window and signal the honda civic guy ....as he roll's down his window he says "sup fool" nice porshhh is dat thing fast at all......lets roll from the light i am running 3 *****'s deep but, i bet i will smoke yo ***!
maybe if more honda guys were like you geo....i might not have such a problem......until the next civic i roll up to with a wing on i will assume he is a moron and try to let it go when he hits his rev limiter reving his car at me at the stop light.cause i will remember their are guys like you...that arent complete and total idiots.
to the discussion and i really appreciate your opinions.......you can debate with me any time
12-09-2003, 09:57 AM
#62
Race Director
Originally posted by porshhhh951
so you are basically saying what i have been all along.......honda civic is a good car ....and with some tastefull mods....it can be made into a great car with great performance......but that still doesnt make it a sports car does it(or hell maybe i am missing my own points here )
so you are basically saying what i have been all along.......honda civic is a good car ....and with some tastefull mods....it can be made into a great car with great performance......but that still doesnt make it a sports car does it(or hell maybe i am missing my own points here
)
Originally posted by porshhhh951
as far as everything else that was said....i basically agree more or less.
i will end the happy car debate with one final question.....because my last and really most passionate remarks were about owners......do you honestly think that a typical honda owner is of the same caliber as a typical porsche owner??(and no i am not talking about money)....
as far as everything else that was said....i basically agree more or less.
i will end the happy car debate with one final question.....because my last and really most passionate remarks were about owners......do you honestly think that a typical honda owner is of the same caliber as a typical porsche owner??(and no i am not talking about money)....
Originally posted by porshhhh951
maybe if more honda guys were like you geo....i might not have such a problem......until the next civic i roll up to with a wing on i will assume he is a moron and try to let it go when he hits his rev limiter reving his car at me at the stop light.cause i will remember their are guys like you...that arent complete and total idiots.
maybe if more honda guys were like you geo....i might not have such a problem......until the next civic i roll up to with a wing on i will assume he is a moron and try to let it go when he hits his rev limiter reving his car at me at the stop light.cause i will remember their are guys like you...that arent complete and total idiots.
I'm not one. I just respect what can be done with them in the hands of someone who knows their stuff. I'm a Nissan guy of sorts, but less so now.I currently own:
84 944
00 328i
91 Sentra SE-R
03 Durango (tow beast!)
Before it was totalled by someone else, I used to own a turbo Infiniti G20. A real sleeper. Looked stock on the outside. Even the intercooler was coated with Swain's Black Body Emitting coating. Functional and stealthy. Unless you looked closely, you wouldn't see it.
Anyway, I'm certainly not a Honduh guy. Just a car lover.
12-09-2003, 12:10 PM
#63
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Oh, one more tidbit on the worthiness of modified Civics.
In my SCCA region there's a really good driver by the name of Tad Kaminski. Very nearly topped the pro drivers' score at the Mazda Rev-it-up event, where the cars were all equally equipped Mazda 6s. Last year he was driving a BMW M Coupe (Z3). This year he is racing with a Civic.
FWIW.
In my SCCA region there's a really good driver by the name of Tad Kaminski. Very nearly topped the pro drivers' score at the Mazda Rev-it-up event, where the cars were all equally equipped Mazda 6s. Last year he was driving a BMW M Coupe (Z3). This year he is racing with a Civic.
FWIW.
12-09-2003, 01:19 PM
#64
Race Director
Originally posted by Joe Anstett
Here's my $.02 on the whole Civic phenomenon.
They aren't fast. They aren't sports cars. They don't handle well.
However, they are sporty *looking*, they are cheap, and they are ubiquitous. And the average kid who grew up on Playstation games thinks these cars are fast.
It's the same formula that drove the hot rod scene of the 30s and the 50s. The muscle car scene of the 60s and 70s. The pony car scene of the 80s.
Cheap + Ubiquitous + Easily Modifiable = success.
The last couple of generations aren't interested, in large part, in German or American performance -- to archaic, too expensive. Enter the grocery-getter Civic which most kids can afford, get handed by mom and dad, and can afford to insure.
So lots of people have Civics, which drives the aftermarket. Which makes more people get Civics.
I'm not particularly fond of the Civic (I always wondered, why not the Sentra or the Corolla?). However, I've seen a couple at Autocross do pretty well when properly modified. I still yawn at Civics, but the aftermarket is HUGE.
Honda has a decent pro racing legacy, but to be honest does it really manifest itself in the cars? OK, the S2000 is a good sports car. But past efforts, like the Prelude? Come on. Accord coupe? Come on.
Here's my $.02 on the whole Civic phenomenon.
They aren't fast. They aren't sports cars. They don't handle well.
However, they are sporty *looking*, they are cheap, and they are ubiquitous. And the average kid who grew up on Playstation games thinks these cars are fast.
It's the same formula that drove the hot rod scene of the 30s and the 50s. The muscle car scene of the 60s and 70s. The pony car scene of the 80s.
Cheap + Ubiquitous + Easily Modifiable = success.
The last couple of generations aren't interested, in large part, in German or American performance -- to archaic, too expensive. Enter the grocery-getter Civic which most kids can afford, get handed by mom and dad, and can afford to insure.
So lots of people have Civics, which drives the aftermarket. Which makes more people get Civics.
I'm not particularly fond of the Civic (I always wondered, why not the Sentra or the Corolla?). However, I've seen a couple at Autocross do pretty well when properly modified. I still yawn at Civics, but the aftermarket is HUGE.
Honda has a decent pro racing legacy, but to be honest does it really manifest itself in the cars? OK, the S2000 is a good sports car. But past efforts, like the Prelude? Come on. Accord coupe? Come on.
However, in your last paragraph, you forget to mention the CRX. IMHO, that was a good effort by Honda to produce a bare-bones, tight handling sports car. (especially with the earlier ones). IMHO, the CRX is closer to the 'classic' definition of what a sports car is than what a present day 911 Carrera is. (Light, nimble, two seater, good power to weight ratio).
Oh, and wasn't the CRX based on the CIVIC Chassis of it's day? Hmmmm.... that would imply that today's CIVIC DOES have some racing in it's blood....
Ducking for cover,
-Z-man.