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1986 951 restoooo and what have you

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Old 09-09-2017 | 11:46 PM
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Default 1986 951 restoooo and what have you

So grandma will not be driving her beloved 951 anymore, she has reached that age and its a bummer. Car was bought new in 1986 and was nothing but problems for the first 25k miles. Mostly clutch issues and dealership screwups among other things, but it was a first year car so its to be expected to a point I guess. It was always maintained and loved and kept completely stock with the exception of the wheels.

Fast forward 31 years later its got about 90k on the clock and well it hasnt had much done in the last 10 years. I would occasionally take it out for exercise but it mostly saw trips to the market and back. Found her garage reeking of fuel and repaired a fuel leak from the tank to the pump, and from there the mushroom factor set in.

I drove the car and had a laundry list after a 50 mile trip to work and back, sticking idle valve, clutch is not happy (but it hasnt been for 10 years, its only seen a couple thousand miles in the last 10 years) Oil seepage is getting worse and now I can smell it in the car, temp and oil gauges are acting wacky flickering and what not, and the boost gauge is sometimes not responsive. The car has had a limp boost issue for a very long time, but again, grandmas car seeing a mile a week. Sunroof needs repair, drivers seat has tears now, all the speakers are toast, timing belts were about 8 years old. And after a quick look under the hood I found rotten battery cables, engine harness issues and just a lot of older parts and things that needed attention. End game is the car will be sold with the inevitable happens, I dont like thinking about it but I wont get into the family drama. There is minor damage to both rockers and she ran the front fender into the side of the garage door frame then had decent body work done, but the paint work is, well, needs some help. But its a rust free 1 owner unmolested car. So what started as a fuel leak and we cant have grandma driving anymore, turned into an expensive weeks long project ending up in pretty much a total resto.

So I pulled the intake to do the engine harness, knock sensor, idle valve and battery cables. All new sensors for everything, ECT, reference and RPM, water temp, knock. Pulled the engine harness and found fuel in the line to the KLR, well that means 2 new regulators now and that might explain the lazy boost gauge. Im hopin its ok but I wont know till I get it back together. Rebuilt the engine harness with parts from lindsey, came out pretty nice. Decided to tear into the timing belts before I pout anything else back on. Then I saw the waterpump was seeping and well that adds a bit of time. So now the crank pully and timing belt backing come off, and the rear timing belt cover is cracked. This was as far as I wanted to go. Its one of those things where I can easily keep going and going, but it will be sold so let the next guy deal with the stuff and ill be straight forward with what it all needs.

Then dad walks over and says would it have been that much more work to pull the motor to do all this work. I said no thats totally unnecessary. Granted its a few more hours to have the engine out at this point, and I thought I could do the clutch that way and fix the oil seepage issues and then no one can try to chisel me for a few G's when it comes down to selling it cause of the tired clutch. So I decided to yank the engine.

Took it out the top. I cant say its better or worse than going out the bottom, but at this point I don't know if I reassemble the timing belts and covers if it will even go back in from the top. It was tight getting it out cause of the stupid pretzel like exhaust and where everything is. And this car is insanely german. Remove 4 parts and 25 bolts to get to the part of bolt you need to access, and don't try and half *** it and only remove half of the stuff...cause you'll end up taking it all off anyway. I love the car I hope to never work on another after this. Though I imagine an NA car yanking the motor straight up would be a piece of cake. The brake booster and down pipe were my biggest issues. I may try and go back in from the bottom, but that poses a whole new set of challenges to me, but its probably the way it will go back in. I can say unbolting the pressure plate through the starter hole, genius! No alignment issues going back in that's for sure haha.

So where Im at today is a huge insane parts order. The clutch I tried to have rebuilt as Ive done before with a good local place. But he didn't like the pressure plate wear and didnt want to surface it, I couldn't blame him. The disc is an OE type with the 6 little springs that like to fall out, so ive got a CUP kit coming from paragon with a new fork pin, fork bearings and bolts. A silicone coolant hose kit and heater hose kit, already have the silicone intake parts. The J-boot however was perfect and still pliable so that will remain. New waterpump and timing belt back plate. A short block seal kit. Im not gonna mess around, it will get resealed from the head down. I did the cam box about 5 year ago and its still nice and dry. So oil pan, all the seals, turbo, crank, rear main, balance shaft in their entirety, oil separator, etc etc. No leaks!! The liquid line from the evaporator to the compressor has a bubble in it and its not in great shape. Ill have to yank that now while the motor is out and have it repaired. New engine mounts (frekin $500 for 2 stupid hydro mounts, oiy) and what ever else pops up.

Ill get correct hardware in places where it may have been missing from previous techs and all that jazz, make it look as good as I can. Clean the engine bay and touch up what needs to be touched up. New plugs, the wires and cap and rotor are good and dont have many miles on em. Seats will be recovered prolly by 944only, if they survive the hurricane. Ill have to go through the sunroof motor and fix the bad micro switches that ruined the gears I replaced years ago and that broke the guide tubed from the gear boxes. Make that all happy again. And if I can throw a set of speakers in it and maybe update the 20 year old sony tape deck that replaced the factory blaupunkt tape deck. Ill have my body guy go over the issue with the body and paint and fix it up as best as possible without a repaint. Car still looks great and cleans up very nice no question. Ill drive it a bit when done and park it in the garage for the forseeable future. Maybe a year or so who knows...but not getting into that. Ill keep it exercised and I will know that when it does come time to sell it, its 100% and good to go. It deserves it and in the end we will probably break even with the ungodly amount of $ in parts but im ok with it Its only gonna go up in value. I learned to drive stick in that car, the feeling of boost for the first time...well we've all felt it. Im sure there are more parts I forgot to add im replacing, oh yeah, voltage regulator, alternator harness, warped front brakes, haha...the list just goes on and on and on. But ill keep the thread updated start to finish. And a little HDR pic my bro did a while back. Still such a damn good looking car


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by https://www.flickr.com/photos/103785479@N08/, on Flickr

by https://www.flickr.com/photos/103785479@N08/, on Flickr

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Old 09-10-2017 | 04:21 PM
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Great looking car. Sounds like Grandma rode the clutch too much. Bottom line, especially with the motor removed, replace everything rubber so you don't have to disassemble the car to get to a 50 cent seal.
Old 09-11-2017 | 10:53 PM
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Yeah she rode it worse as she got older. Everything rubber will be done, all the hoses will be changed and replaced with silicone. Heater valve motor mounts, etc etc. Every gasket and what have you also
Old 09-18-2017 | 02:14 AM
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Well motor is on a stand and beginning to tear into it. Got piles of new parts arriving and etc etc. Its amazing how after years of others servicing the car what can be left loose lol. And just how complex and German this car is, the turbo and the oil separator draining into the engine mount bracket then into the pan heh.

Anywho, getting a full reseal except for the cam box, I did that a few years ago and its still dry as a bone. So oil pan, pump cover, rear main, balance shafts etc etc. The pan started to seep when I turned the motor on its side so that gasket was obviously toast...I dont think its ever been off. And the plug in the back of the intake side balance shaft is flat out loose. But after getting the pan off, its damn clean inside! 90k miles of conventional oil, and the last 10+ years driven to the market and back...this is a result of changing your oil and why you do it! Just pluggin along



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Old 09-22-2017 | 01:47 AM
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WOO!! More parts keep comin off haha. Motor on a stand and stripped down. All covers and what not are off, balance shafts, oil pump etc etc. No reason I have to disassemble the pump right? They arnt a failure point are they? Its crazy the rear plugs on the balance shafts wernt leaking either, they were flat out loose and rattling around

And gotta get some sealer, probably gonna use the permatex anaerobic gasket maker, the red jelly stuff in the tube. Seems as people have had good luck with it, and I dont have to order it I can get it locally. Thoughts?

Any advice on sealing and reassembly is greatly appreciated, I do not want any oil leaks.

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Old 09-22-2017 | 03:08 AM
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My 951 got an oil starvation on syl 2... and my oilpump did not look great after 156 000 km ( about 100 000 miles )
Old 09-22-2017 | 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ealoken
My 951 got an oil starvation on syl 2... and my oilpump did not look great after 156 000 km ( about 100 000 miles )
Oiy, why did you go and say that haha...thats another $750. Im gonna disassemble the pump and see what it looks like before making a decision
Old 09-22-2017 | 11:22 PM
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Seems as if most oil pumps dont fail in these cars and if they do they are way up there in mileage. The engine is so clean inside and I know this car has always been maintained properly im gonna let it ride. It never has lifter noise even after sitting and the gauge works fine, never stays pegged at 5 bar and was around 3 ideling warmed up. Gonna clean it and reseal it. Its not a cheep insurance thing at 800$ and with everything else the car is getting its at the end of its budget. And besides, most of em will just keep going and going aa long as its sealed up properly.
Old 09-24-2017 | 09:25 PM
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Started cleaning the 7 boxes of parts at work. Got a little bit done this weekend, few hours cleaning bolts and prepping the oil pump and balance shaft overs to be reinstalled. Cleaning the block and all that. Went with the permatex anaerobic sealer. Got the oil pump back on and one balance shaft cover. Timing belt cover is sorta on so I could get all the bolts in the oil pump while it cures, 2 from the back cover run through it. Need to visit a hydraulic shop this week and get the oil cooler hoses redone. Also got the A/C liquid line repaired as the rubber part down to the compressor was bubbling

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Old 09-25-2017 | 06:00 PM
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Looking good!

I saw that you're not doing the cam tower. Understandable, but why not the head gasket? It's 31 years old now and the best practice is to change it. It will never be an easier time to change it than right now when the engine is on a stand and dry.

When I pulled my engine in my '86 last year the I found the HG had been leaking coolant into a couple of studs. Wasn't going to be too much longer and it would have gone completely.

Would hate to see you do all of this great work, only to have the HG go six months later.

Just my penny's worth of advice..
Old 10-08-2017 | 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by pdxfj
Looking good!

I saw that you're not doing the cam tower. Understandable, but why not the head gasket? It's 31 years old now .

Cam tower I resealed a while back and its got less than 2k miles on that repair, and I did just get the proper plugs to go back into it, and the head gasket haha...well head has been off the car 2 times. First time at 4 years old and 36 k miles cause of a snapped timing belt. Supposedly bent 2 valves, I was only 11 at the time so I couldn't tell you how true that is but the head as off the car then. And again about 20k miles ago because of a broken exhaust stud. The cooling system was always maintained and there is no signs of excess corrosion or anything like that. I have no reason to take the head off, but I get what you are saying, especially if it was the original gasket. But its super clean and dry around it.

Got about half of it back together and got stuck because I have no turbo oil drain and feed gaskets. EVen had to order the correct oil pick up tube seal. I wonder after tearing into this motor how much oil pump failure actually happens vs. the anaerobic sealer failing between the pump and the block, and the oil pump pick up oring shrinking. This one was only 90k miles and it was loose, sealing still but i dunno by how much. And since the balance shaft covers are glued on like the oil pump, and they leak I can only imagine that resealing the oil pump should be done at the same time. But anyway, that and a breather hose I forgot to order are on the way now.

Oh and the new timing belt back piece, being the updated version doesn't fit the old timing belt front covers at all, thanks Porsche!! Geez this is a horribly designed engine. For all the time and $$ Ive got into this I could haev dropped in an LS and been done for half the $$ haha. If i were to ever own one of these Id pay someone else to service it, but really, a 944 is a perfect candidate for a v8 swap. You get the awesomeness that is the 944 with all the reliability and power it should have! A 911 of the same era is way less maintenance and way more reliable that this car haha, but 4 times the cost now.

I broke only 1 stud in the downpipe when removing the exhaust, lots of heat and most of it came out, I think there is 1/8 of an inch of it still stuck in there for what ever reason. I can easily drill that out. The pipe isnt collapsing which is good, so its goin back in.

And a few hours of the motor upsidown soaking it with purple power and scrubbing with a toothbrush and rinsing with warm water and a squirt bottle. Too bad the super clean side is hidden under the exhaust haha. But its cleaner thats for sure, no more grime and oil. And rehosed oil cooler hoses for 1/3 the price of new ones.

Im just complaining. Ive worked on many cars and this is the most german by far lol...still though, I wouldnt be doing it if I didnt like the car.

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Old 10-22-2017 | 03:48 PM
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Been outa town for a minute, so im back on it sorta. Got more done, and geez there is so much bolted to this motor. As it dissaperes under all the parts im somewhat paranoid ill forget some heat shield or bracket that will cause me to go backwards. But anywho...

2 new thermostats, new voltage regulator and alternator cables. Full new timing belt cover, and had to mod the back peice cause it dint fit for crap at the top by the head, nor did it stay in place cause there are 2 bolt holes that wernt drilled out. So 1 cut on the upper section and i was able to pull it in and drill the holes, and it came out perfect. I used Lock tite those 2 upper bolts so they dont come out. The broken stud actually came out with some heat, and what i thought was the end of the stud in the hole came out easy too.. Went to center punch it to drill it and it descintegrated, haha no complaints there. Chased all the threads and turbo and half the exhaust is back on. Gonna fully assemble the motor on teh stand, wiring and all, then put it in under the car.

1 more day of assembly I think, then 1 day or so to prep the engine compartment, reinstall the A/C hose I had repaired, clean, degrease and repaint the scratched areas. Pull the sub frame out completely and the steering hoses. Then, hopefully one more day to reinstall.












Old 10-28-2017 | 11:00 PM
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Ok more progress, now I feel like Im getting somewhere. Exhaust back on, it was tight betting the bolts in the 2 pipes at the bottom of the manifold, dunno why but its together. Motor is pretty much ready to go in. And got the engine bay cleaned. Little purple power and a sponge did quite a job. And for the scratches and bare spots Rustoleum Sunrise Red is a near dead on match. Did a quick test spray. Need to do some proper sanding and what not but it will touch up real nice.

So the motor came out the top, no way its goin back in that way. Ill put the clutch in the bell housing and put the motor in from the bottom. My question is how much room do I need? I have 20 inches from the bottom of the radiator support to the ground. That enough?

Also the engine mounts, again another stupid german design. Every other car ever you can put the mounts on the motor and put the subframe on and drop the motor on to it. Not this one, oh no that would have been easy. So mounts go on the subframe first, but can i then lift the motor a little to get the mount bolts in so i lift it in place with the subframe on? The torque tube dropped a few inches after the motor was out so Im guessing ill have a little room to side the motor into it and then lift it into place? I don't wanna have to do up the mounts with the motor in place if I can help it. Thought or suggestions please let me know!













Old 11-05-2017 | 02:44 PM
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Engine compartment touched up, engine on a furniture dolly, car lifted up, engine under car, car back on jack stands, engine in car! Pretty straight forward. And I found something the germans did right on this car!! The clutch bolts, there are 9 of them in sets of 3. There are 3 holes on the bell housing and they line up with the bolts. Very impressive, you can tighten the clutch pressure plate bolts evenly without turning the engine over 100 times. The only convenient thing so far on this car haha. Getting to this point has me motivated pretty good now, gonna head over to the house and keep going, see if I can get it fired up today.



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Old 11-06-2017 | 01:08 AM
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Well didnt get it lit up, but got the exhaust back on, washer and coolant tanks back in, most of the hoses on, power steering cooler and oil cooler, starter, radiator and fans in. Also use the air down the dipstick with the breather blocked cranking it with no oil filter to get the pump primed, worked fantastic, didn't make much of a mess. Threw the filter on and cranked it more and got oil pressure. But just too much left to get it fired up, there is no winging i or cutting corners with this car, its all gotta be put together one way and one way only, oiy





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