OT : Need some Computer advise
11-27-2003, 09:48 PM
#1
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OT : Need some Computer advise
Hey all you IT types....
I want to buy both a new home computer as well as a laptop for my wife.....the laptop will be both another home PC as well as for her to use for school stuff ( she's a 3rd grade teacher)....
Big question is what is the difference between the Intel Celeron and the Pentium 4 ? Seems like ( mainly with notebooks) the less expensive units use the Celeron...what's the deal?
On the subject of the home PC....I currently have a pentium II - 350Mhz ( I know...slow! )....I need to replace and also upgrade to a flat panel display...to fit inside our new roll-top desk...anybody have any recomendations?
TIA!
JB
I want to buy both a new home computer as well as a laptop for my wife.....the laptop will be both another home PC as well as for her to use for school stuff ( she's a 3rd grade teacher)....
Big question is what is the difference between the Intel Celeron and the Pentium 4 ? Seems like ( mainly with notebooks) the less expensive units use the Celeron...what's the deal?
On the subject of the home PC....I currently have a pentium II - 350Mhz ( I know...slow! )....I need to replace and also upgrade to a flat panel display...to fit inside our new roll-top desk...anybody have any recomendations?
TIA!
JB
11-27-2003, 10:17 PM
#2
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You want the p4 if you can afford it, unless all you are doing is word processing. The Celeron is a budget processor basically. The celeron usually has less built on cache, and, more importantly, runs a slower bus speed, slowing down all data transfers in your computer. thus, a 2 ghz celeron will run as if it was a 1.6-1.8 ghz P4 if you want to make that kind of comparison, but certain tasks will show an even greater difference. heres a link to a more in depth look...
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20020903/
Good luck!
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20020903/
Good luck!
11-28-2003, 12:59 AM
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If you're a 'normal' user (Office users, surfing the web, maybe some Quicken) then there's really no need to spend the extra scratch on a Pentium class processor. If you're a heavy gamer (which you're not, or the LCD would never be an option), plan on doing digital video editing, AutoCad, etc.. then the processor might be worth the extra cash. For almost ALL users, memory is more important than the processor and that's especially true for those who do mostly web surfing.
As for LCD.. I've had 2 of them for about 2 years and I only get more and more disgusted with them. Yup, they're thin and look better than a big ole CRT sitting on your desk but they display Anything graphically in a most displeasent manor. I actually get headaches within 30 minutes of sitting down at an LCD now, and I'm running a high-end video card. If you can, hold out for either Flat CRT (about twice the thikness of LCD) or OLED. both should be out within the next year.
As for LCD.. I've had 2 of them for about 2 years and I only get more and more disgusted with them. Yup, they're thin and look better than a big ole CRT sitting on your desk but they display Anything graphically in a most displeasent manor. I actually get headaches within 30 minutes of sitting down at an LCD now, and I'm running a high-end video card. If you can, hold out for either Flat CRT (about twice the thikness of LCD) or OLED. both should be out within the next year.
11-28-2003, 01:07 AM
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I would build the pc myself ......... Plus i would wait a few months untill the 64 bit chips come down in price and use one of the new 64 bit cpu. I love amd and i would never go back to intel.
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11-28-2003, 10:05 AM
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Guys
Thanks for all the great info! I will probably spring for the Pentium as I do occasionally use ACAD at home ( for work related stuff)...and we do alot with digital photos of my son....only to increase in a few mos w/ twins on the way!
I don't have much choice but to go w/ a flat panel display...the new desk we bought does not leave much room inside it for a monitor ( even though it's a "computer" roll-top!)...
Brian....are they really worse than an active matrix laptop? I stare at mine all day ( except for the rare occasion when I am actually in my office and docked to the 17" monitor)...
Mark..thanks for the offer...still not sure what I want but if I decide dell I'll PM you!
Happy holidays!
Joe
Thanks for all the great info! I will probably spring for the Pentium as I do occasionally use ACAD at home ( for work related stuff)...and we do alot with digital photos of my son....only to increase in a few mos w/ twins on the way!
I don't have much choice but to go w/ a flat panel display...the new desk we bought does not leave much room inside it for a monitor ( even though it's a "computer" roll-top!)...
Brian....are they really worse than an active matrix laptop? I stare at mine all day ( except for the rare occasion when I am actually in my office and docked to the 17" monitor)...
Mark..thanks for the offer...still not sure what I want but if I decide dell I'll PM you!
Happy holidays!
Joe
11-28-2003, 11:24 AM
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I think a celeron would be fine for your needs. It will probably be quite a bit cheaper, and great for basically anything you can think of except gaming and hardcore development stuff.
11-28-2003, 11:49 AM
#10
Anything is going to be a HUGE improvement over the 350 even if it's a celeron. The celeron has lass cache and does run slower than the P4, but seeing as you are coming from a 350, it'll still be light years faster than your computer is now.
11-28-2003, 12:21 PM
#11
Going with the pack
is quite monotonous.
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is quite monotonous.
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If you can, hold out for either Flat CRT (about twice the thikness of LCD) or OLED. both should be out within the next year.
11-28-2003, 01:20 PM
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celeron's are much lower in performance than p4's.
for the home desktop, go for a p4 or athlon 64 based system.
for the laptop, try to get a pentium M based system, not a pentium 4m. the pentium M is very different from the 4m- it gives better performance at lower clock speeds, which ends up generating less heat and has longer battery life. Any 'Centrino' notebook has a pentium M in it. (the other part of being a centrino notebook is that it has intel's wireless chipset built in as well.)
Organic LED screens (OLED's) are not going to be available anytime soon.
regular LCD screens work fine as long as you run them at their native resolution. Because an LCD is a fixed pixel display, running them at a resolution that doesn't match their pixel grid's size forces the screen to do scaling to the image, which generally makes text and graphics look fuzzy. So, make sure you use your panel's native resolution, and if that rez happens to be really high (like 1280x1024 or something) then make friends with large fonts in windows.
The Samsung panel that was mentioned before does have a really good reputation. Also, I've been really happy with Hitachi's recent panels. I've got a CMLSX147 at home, and I love it. THe color reproduction isn't quite perfect, but it has a REALLY fast pixel rise and fall rate, so it's great for playing games without trails. . . . .
for the home desktop, go for a p4 or athlon 64 based system.
for the laptop, try to get a pentium M based system, not a pentium 4m. the pentium M is very different from the 4m- it gives better performance at lower clock speeds, which ends up generating less heat and has longer battery life. Any 'Centrino' notebook has a pentium M in it. (the other part of being a centrino notebook is that it has intel's wireless chipset built in as well.)
Organic LED screens (OLED's) are not going to be available anytime soon.
regular LCD screens work fine as long as you run them at their native resolution. Because an LCD is a fixed pixel display, running them at a resolution that doesn't match their pixel grid's size forces the screen to do scaling to the image, which generally makes text and graphics look fuzzy. So, make sure you use your panel's native resolution, and if that rez happens to be really high (like 1280x1024 or something) then make friends with large fonts in windows.
The Samsung panel that was mentioned before does have a really good reputation. Also, I've been really happy with Hitachi's recent panels. I've got a CMLSX147 at home, and I love it. THe color reproduction isn't quite perfect, but it has a REALLY fast pixel rise and fall rate, so it's great for playing games without trails. . . . .
11-28-2003, 01:56 PM
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Wow, lots of responces, and lots of different opinions here. I'm almost
afraid to chime in.
I can say this though:
I build PCs like Huntly builds cars. I know the pulse of "Enthusiast"
industry.
With that said. Don't build your own, or have a shop build one for you,
unless you really think you need "custom built to spec". This is odd coming
from me because I do this as a hobby and for money, but honestly, unless
you need thatk ind of mad power and features you get with a custom
built PC, a good Dell with a good Warranty will 98% of what you need and
probably at a lower cost.
As for flat panels vs CRT (Cathode Ray Tube=Normal Glass Screen).
Sorry Brian, but a *good* LCD is superior to a good CRT in every way
except contrast and refresh. LCDs have an accurate (flat) matrix. It will
not bend your picture like even the flattest CRT. The colors are more
accurate then a CRT because colors and shift and drift due to something
as simple as the earth own magnetic field. The weight and power
consumption and wasted energy (heat) are all better then on a CRT.
And with a DVI input, you are basically running better then HDTV quality,
and pure digital.
The LCDs weak spots (besides cost) are Contrast, and Refresh. It has
weaker contrast because they are backlit, whereas a CRT is lit by the very
beams that make the colors. So while a CRT starts out black, an LCD has to
be slightly ligheter then black being back lit. As for refresh, again CRTs
are faster because the light hitting the screen is, well moving the speed of
light. The only limits to a CRTs refresh speed are the electronics pushing
that light. Whereas on an LCD, you are actually lighting up pieces of hard
ware, and are limited in speed by how fast those pieces of hardware
light up.
A higher quality panel should not give you headaches, and unless you
happen to run out and buy an SGI monitor, probably 1000X better then
what you have.
Again, I would recommend the Dell, but make sure you stick with the
Ultrasharp lineup. They are made to higher specs, and attempt to avoid
the two pitfalls of LCD.
The Samsung mentioned previously is a good one, but you can do equal
or better with the Dell. I mean, they are generally the same Samsung
LCD panels, but cheaper and with the Dell name on it!!
As for P4 vs Celeron. It's true that 95% of typical users have WAY WAY WAY
too much power in their desktop (or laptop) PC. The typical user uses
a computer as a simple information device. IE Checking E-mail, chatting,
writing stuff for work, showing off pictures of your car or child, burning
Music CDs, and the occasional game. But honestly, relating computers to
cars (which is a perfect analogy IMHO), if you could afford a 911, or a 911
Turbo, which would you go for? Yeah, I'd go for the P4 also.
Now, assuming P4, without being any more confusing, there are about 4
different types of P4. If you can afford it, and the model of computer your
looking at has the choice, GO WITH THE ONE THAT HAS HYPERTHREADING!
Hyperthreading is the important key here. Without getting too technical,
hyperthreading is a technology that makes the one processor look like
two (virtual) processors to windows. Twin Turbo vs Single Turbo? No, not
quite, more like all wheel drive vs 2 wheel drive. With the two virtual
processors, the machine can do more things at one time then it can with
just a regular P4. Trust me on this, you might never get up to this level
of "multitasking" I do, but with a hyperthreaded processor, I'm able to
Read Rennlist, read the news, download videos on Kazaa, listen to MP3s,
record a TV show in the background, and burn a CD all at the same time!!
No joke. Technoligy is really in our favor.
As for AMD and 64bit. Again, without confusing the issue. AMD is fine if your
building a custom PC and are on a budget. 64bit processors are out now,
but at extreme cost, and almost no advantage. Until 64bit (and the proper
64bit software to run on it!!) is mainstream, then typical 32bit world is
fine for 99.999% of us. Granted, I'm a big fan of AMD, but for daily use
performance, the newer P4 with Hyperthreading can't be touched.
A couple very general tips:
Get the fastest processor you can afford (with Hyperthreading).
It helps your system be futureproof (an oxymoron but you understand)
Get as much memory as you can afford. You really can't have too much.
I could recommend a *minimum* of 512MB. Again, if you get a Dell or
custom build, that's probably standard. 1GB (or 1024MB) can't hurt.
Hard drive space has gotten ungodly cheap, and therefor ungodly huge.
Just get lots. More is better and can always be upgraded. 80GB should do
the average user. But again, more is better.
And it's very, very, very important, DON'T SKIMP OUT ON YOUR MONITOR!
Remember, your monitor is your feedback from your computer. You wouldn't
drive your car with a dirty, smeared up windshield, so why pay for a monitor
that is about the same quality as a dirty windshield!
I hope all this made sense, and I didn't sound like I'm ranting. I can
honestly say, without feeling like I'm exagerating or tooting my own horn;
I'm really good at what I do, and what I do is build PCs for performance.
If you have any questions, or want me to look over your shoulder, feel free
to E-mail me or send me a PM with the link of what your thinking about
getting. I know my diatribe here was mostly desktop oriented, but most
of what I talked about applys to Laptops as well. Just keep in mind, most
laptops, what you buy is what you get and they are VERY limited as to
what you can upgrade and how far in the future! Again, buy the best you
can afford with all the features you need!
I hope this helps out some!
afraid to chime in.
I can say this though:
I build PCs like Huntly builds cars. I know the pulse of "Enthusiast"
industry.
With that said. Don't build your own, or have a shop build one for you,
unless you really think you need "custom built to spec". This is odd coming
from me because I do this as a hobby and for money, but honestly, unless
you need thatk ind of mad power and features you get with a custom
built PC, a good Dell with a good Warranty will 98% of what you need and
probably at a lower cost.
As for flat panels vs CRT (Cathode Ray Tube=Normal Glass Screen).
Sorry Brian, but a *good* LCD is superior to a good CRT in every way
except contrast and refresh. LCDs have an accurate (flat) matrix. It will
not bend your picture like even the flattest CRT. The colors are more
accurate then a CRT because colors and shift and drift due to something
as simple as the earth own magnetic field. The weight and power
consumption and wasted energy (heat) are all better then on a CRT.
And with a DVI input, you are basically running better then HDTV quality,
and pure digital.
The LCDs weak spots (besides cost) are Contrast, and Refresh. It has
weaker contrast because they are backlit, whereas a CRT is lit by the very
beams that make the colors. So while a CRT starts out black, an LCD has to
be slightly ligheter then black being back lit. As for refresh, again CRTs
are faster because the light hitting the screen is, well moving the speed of
light. The only limits to a CRTs refresh speed are the electronics pushing
that light. Whereas on an LCD, you are actually lighting up pieces of hard
ware, and are limited in speed by how fast those pieces of hardware
light up.
A higher quality panel should not give you headaches, and unless you
happen to run out and buy an SGI monitor, probably 1000X better then
what you have.
Again, I would recommend the Dell, but make sure you stick with the
Ultrasharp lineup. They are made to higher specs, and attempt to avoid
the two pitfalls of LCD.
The Samsung mentioned previously is a good one, but you can do equal
or better with the Dell. I mean, they are generally the same Samsung
LCD panels, but cheaper and with the Dell name on it!!
As for P4 vs Celeron. It's true that 95% of typical users have WAY WAY WAY
too much power in their desktop (or laptop) PC. The typical user uses
a computer as a simple information device. IE Checking E-mail, chatting,
writing stuff for work, showing off pictures of your car or child, burning
Music CDs, and the occasional game. But honestly, relating computers to
cars (which is a perfect analogy IMHO), if you could afford a 911, or a 911
Turbo, which would you go for? Yeah, I'd go for the P4 also.
Now, assuming P4, without being any more confusing, there are about 4
different types of P4. If you can afford it, and the model of computer your
looking at has the choice, GO WITH THE ONE THAT HAS HYPERTHREADING!
Hyperthreading is the important key here. Without getting too technical,
hyperthreading is a technology that makes the one processor look like
two (virtual) processors to windows. Twin Turbo vs Single Turbo? No, not
quite, more like all wheel drive vs 2 wheel drive. With the two virtual
processors, the machine can do more things at one time then it can with
just a regular P4. Trust me on this, you might never get up to this level
of "multitasking" I do, but with a hyperthreaded processor, I'm able to
Read Rennlist, read the news, download videos on Kazaa, listen to MP3s,
record a TV show in the background, and burn a CD all at the same time!!
No joke. Technoligy is really in our favor.
As for AMD and 64bit. Again, without confusing the issue. AMD is fine if your
building a custom PC and are on a budget. 64bit processors are out now,
but at extreme cost, and almost no advantage. Until 64bit (and the proper
64bit software to run on it!!) is mainstream, then typical 32bit world is
fine for 99.999% of us. Granted, I'm a big fan of AMD, but for daily use
performance, the newer P4 with Hyperthreading can't be touched.
A couple very general tips:
Get the fastest processor you can afford (with Hyperthreading).
It helps your system be futureproof (an oxymoron but you understand)
Get as much memory as you can afford. You really can't have too much.
I could recommend a *minimum* of 512MB. Again, if you get a Dell or
custom build, that's probably standard. 1GB (or 1024MB) can't hurt.
Hard drive space has gotten ungodly cheap, and therefor ungodly huge.
Just get lots. More is better and can always be upgraded. 80GB should do
the average user. But again, more is better.
And it's very, very, very important, DON'T SKIMP OUT ON YOUR MONITOR!
Remember, your monitor is your feedback from your computer. You wouldn't
drive your car with a dirty, smeared up windshield, so why pay for a monitor
that is about the same quality as a dirty windshield!
I hope all this made sense, and I didn't sound like I'm ranting. I can
honestly say, without feeling like I'm exagerating or tooting my own horn;
I'm really good at what I do, and what I do is build PCs for performance.
If you have any questions, or want me to look over your shoulder, feel free
to E-mail me or send me a PM with the link of what your thinking about
getting. I know my diatribe here was mostly desktop oriented, but most
of what I talked about applys to Laptops as well. Just keep in mind, most
laptops, what you buy is what you get and they are VERY limited as to
what you can upgrade and how far in the future! Again, buy the best you
can afford with all the features you need!
I hope this helps out some!
11-28-2003, 02:04 PM
#15
Racer
Join Date: May 2002
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Here are some examples of the fun stuff I've built just in the past 6 months.
All of the systems shown here were for regular use, and/or gaming by
me personally. After using them for a while I sold each one at a profit!
Try doing that with your computer! LOL
Lonely Raven's Computer work on LOTL
PS, the photos were not all taken by me, so I'm sorry for the crappy
quality. Since I no longer own any of those systems, I can't take any
better photos!
Enjoy!
All of the systems shown here were for regular use, and/or gaming by
me personally. After using them for a while I sold each one at a profit!
Try doing that with your computer! LOL
Lonely Raven's Computer work on LOTL
PS, the photos were not all taken by me, so I'm sorry for the crappy
quality. Since I no longer own any of those systems, I can't take any
better photos!
Enjoy!