budge96

Hello and welcome to the forum,congrats on getting in the garage and familiarizing yourself with your
turbo ,nothing could be more ZEN!
I have to say like a few earlier posts .it's been a while since i've seen such a pristine set of thermal reactors ,usually since they've long since been removed and replaced by either european exhaust or
headers.
Thats not saying there's anything wrong with an original example ,its just those are more often than not the first upgrade or thing to go ..
Your car does appear very original and dry underneath so it must be quite low mileage ..looks great!
Bert

bleachii

Jwas,

You are not the only one alluding to the fact that I shouldn't need to remove the heat exchangers to get to the valve covers. I'm going to look at the left side before I remove the HE just to see how it would be possible althought I've already done the hard work to get the HE removed.

Could be that it's possible just very tight quarters. I looked at it and immediately figured they needed to come off. Maybe I didn't look at it hard enough. Removal of the HE doesn't help the access to the return tubes. The left side return tubes seem accessible. The right side needs to either have the EGR removed or the TR removed.

I'm really not sure what to do about the TR at this point. Do I start looking for the TR delete headers and go down the slippery slope of removal or try and finish this project and then take my time and figure out what I want to do. Long term definitely makes sense to get rid of them based on all the feedback. I have to determine if it makes sense to do it now as opposed to a later date.

One thought was to make it through smog in April 2012 and then put on some headers which would give me 2 years to figure out passing smog again. This wasn't in my original scope of this project so I'm going to have to mull this over.

bleachii

Budge,

Love your rims btw....

Here's some of the story.

I bought this car from supposedly the original owner in '98 with 3389 miles on it. Whether or not that was true I honestly can't say for sure. I was young and made some mistakes in not fully authenticating the mileage. Everything about the car however seemed to indicate very low mileage and the owner inlcuded the original window sticker and other dealer receipts which helped but didn't seal it as 100% authenticated.

I have to say I would never by a car with mileage that low again. I felt guilty when I would drive it although we know it needs to be driven. Anyway when your 20 something you do things that you would do differently when you are 40 something.

So I flew up and drove it back to SoCal from Seattle hoping it wouldn't rain...because supposedly it had never been in the rain. It was part of a 57 car collection. The owner had a 83 or 84 cab in a matching color and was breaking up the pair for estate tax reasons or whatever you do when you have a 57 car collection. They were sitting next to each other when I took possession of this car so I know the two cars were true. I never saw the other 50 something cars so maybe the whole story was bogus. At the time I wasn't sure but being so giddy about buying my childhood dream car I was willing to nod my head and wipe the drool and take the keys

Anyhow...the whole drive home it rains and or sleets! I have old tires with flat spots and the car has barely been driven in the last 19 years. Talk about stupid! Think I took 2 or 3 days to get home. When I got home I kind of had buyers remorse as well. Wondered if it was authentic, maybe I was duped, etc.

The car now has just over 20k on it and has only been in the rain 2-3 times since I have owned it. We had kids shortly after and for the past 5ish years it has barely been driven...less than 1000 miles. I've been pretty bummed about it sitting in the garage leaking oil all over the place so I've decided it's time to just go for it. Going to get her all fixed up again, driver her around, get back in with PCA, etc.

This is hopefully the beginning of that process. One day I'll have to tell the story about the broker who helped me find it. I got the shaft on that one as well. Learned some valuable lessons for sure!

Thanks everyone for all the help.

TOMDEG

By the looks of the engine components I would totally believe the mileage is true. Lets see some more pix of the car. I would not worry about passing emissions with the TR replacements, I have them on my car and recently passed smog. Most tester wont bother to look underneath the car and when they do, even less actually know what they are looking at. Where are you in Cali?
Love the color

bleachii

To answer the question regarding access to the valve covers with/without the heat exchangers on... look at the following pictures. The first shows access on the left side through wheel well with heat exchanger on. Looks accessible.

Second pic shows right side looking through wheel well and access is not out of the question but by no means easy unless you move the oil lines perhaps. Last pic shows access via underneath but without the heat exchanger. There is minimal access from the bottom with the heat exchanger installed. I guess it could be enough if you worked in tight spaces at various angles. Not out of the question.

Seems like it's worth it to remove the HE to do a valve adjust atleast on the right side but I could be missing something.

bleachii

That's great to know Tom. I've watched the guys do a check of my car and visually I'm pretty sure they have no idea what they are looking for unless they are just checking for headers. The non catalyst sticker actually helps I think. If they aren't looking for a catalytic converter I don't think they know what they are looking for. Can't be too many cars showing up with heat exchangers and thermal reactors.

I'm in Huntington Beach.

bleachii

Alright, now I have a decision to make and I need your input please. Since I had easy access to the left side return tubes I went ahead a began to remove one of them. Even compressed with the circlip removed I am unable to get it out.

It's a physical size problem. Between the thermal reactor being in the way and some metal tube that runs through that area there is no physical way to remove the return tube. It will not fit no matter the angle or direction. I could crush it but I'll have the same issue with installing the new one.

Either the metal tubing needs to be removed or the dreaded TR. I'm leaning toward the metal tubing. I've posted pics...could someone tell me what that tubing is for? Looks to be an injection system? More smog plumbing? Any issue with removing it. It connects to the engine in 3 places on each side then up to the upper engine bay via a cloth/braided hose. I can loosen it and drop it down out of the way I think.

First pic: Metal piping as it attaches to braided hose and goes up to upper engine bay.

Second pic: Left side TR, metal piping and Oil Return Tubes (one is loose as I began removal)

Third pic: Right side metal tubes, EGR and TR. Showing access difficult without removing atleast EGR and most likely the metal tubing.

I'm leaning toward the metal piping and not the TR. Gave up for the night....I'm gonna sleep on it and wait to see if anyone has any other ideas.

Thoughts?

Rob S

Brian,

That's the air injection manifold. Part of the smog system. Yes, you can just loosen it and drop it down or remove it. For smog visuals, you might want to retain it, so be prepared to reinstall it. I'm sure your car would pass the practical test with the air pump and manifold removed as well, but the visual might be more of a problem. If you choose to remove the manifold for good, you can buy screws to plug the holes in the exhaust ports.

But as I said in my post in your other thread, I strongly suggest you use this opportunity to get rid of the TRs. I would consider that task to be more important than fixing the oil leaks or adjusting the valves. Here's your chance to do it...

Also, I just noticed that the oil return tubes that are currently installed were not the factory one-piece parts -- they're the expandable aftermarket type. So if you haven't had that done, the previous owner must already have been in there before you. The one-piece kind installed at the factory can only be installed when the engine is disassembled.

Rob

bleachii

Working on more pics of the car Tom.

Rob, thank you for your input on both threads. I'm formulating a plan to remove the TRs....I agree with you and everyone else that its time. Good times ahead!

I've been getting a bit sentimental about my buying experience in '98 so I dug out my files for the old girl and found this interesting document. Enjoy.

bleachii

Last night I removed the left HE very easily and access to both valve covers is fantastic now. However, I started to try and remove the air injectors and that did not go well. They are extremely tight and the TRs are really wreaking havoc on access. I'm going to get a stubby 14mm to see if that will help.

If they are just too difficult I'll have to deal with the TRs first and then the injectors after. Also realized I don't have a wrench big enough to deal with removal of the EGR. I'm going to go buy a larger adjustable which will hopefully do the trick. If that's the wrong tool someone please chime in.

Slow progress last night but on the bright side I didn't break anything. I did manage to hit all the TR nuts with another round of PB Blaster. Need to go to Home Depot tonight and get one of those high temp torches. Any words of wisdom/caution when using one? I've only ever used a propane torch on plumbing. Never under my car in tight spaces. Will have a fire extinguisher handy just in case.

Thanks.
Brian

Rob S

Brian,

Good idea to have a fire extinguisher handy, though I've never had an issue -- the flame is pretty directional and you can focus it where you want it.

For each nut, first test fit whatever wrench/socket/tool gives you the right angle and room to safely apply torque. If you feel daring, you might give it a try with no heat. There's no way to counsel on how much torque is risky. It's a "feel" thing. I'd probably do that before applying heat, but if you have no feel for this, it's probably safer just to use heat right away.

As to heating: the key is to get it hot enough. If you don't see a red/orange color on the nut, you're wasting your time and risking the exhaust stud. Don't worry that the red/orange color is too hot -- they run that hot whenever you're on the boost. Just aim the flame at the nut and move around in an attempt to heat the nut somewhat evenly. When it glows orange, remove the torch and get your wrench in there right away to loosen the nut. The wrench will cool the nut pretty quickly, so you have to work fast. If you're not successful -- and feel you're still applying too much torque to feel comfortable -- reheat the nut and try again. It works like magic...

Good luck.

Rob

bleachii

I sure hope one day I have the knowledge to help someone else as much as everyone is helping me. Thank you very much Rob. Can't get any clearer instructions than what you have provided. Now it's up to me to make it happen.

bleachii

So I went and purchased a Mapp torch this weekend with the separate oxygen tank. Planned on getting down to business on the 12 nuts attaching the thermal reactors to the head studs.

Being a rookie I was a bit suprised when the 9 inch flame lept out of the tip when I lit it! I had no luck at my first try that afternoon. Didn't help that I kept hearing neighbors scream at the Bears-Packers game and kept having to stop to see what was happening. Anyhow, the issue was I was thinking I needed a yellow flame with the blue flame inside. Everytime I tried to turn up the oxygen the whole thing would blow out. I was using the yellow flame with gas turned up but not enough oxygen and managed to make everything black and hot....but not cherry red. Plus here I am with this 9-10 inch flame licking through the bottom of the car making smoke and basically making me nervous.

Didn't help that it was windy and I think that was causing some of the issues with the flame going out as well. Trying to adjust the gas, oxygen, lie under the car, big yellow flame....I was wondering whether I should have just taken the car to the shop. I started to get pretty frustrated so I quit and went to teach my daughter to ride her new 2 wheeler bike.

Came back later in the evening when it was calm and having talked with a couple of other Pelicanites. With their words of wisdom I managed to finally learn how to get the torch with the hot blue flame. I think earlier I was turning up the oxygen too fast. Like someone blowing on the flame it was putting the flame out. Once I turned the dial slower it kicked in to the super hot blue only flame and I was then able to easily get the nut cherry red...maybe like 1-2 minutes of heat. At that point it loosened very easily with a 13mm wrench.

I quit after that single nut as I was happy to figure out the process and at least get one removed. I'll tackle the rest this week. I'm sure to many of you this is all second nature but I don't get to play with too many Mapp torches when caring for servers So for me it was all a new adventure.

Not too many pics as I really didn't do squat. Think I used up my picture quota on this site so text only for now. I did have a couple posted on Pelican.

bleachii

Last night managed to get 4 more nuts off of the TRs sans heat. Pretty sure I could have removed the rest as well but I don't have the correct tool(s). Will be heading to Sears today to hopefully find the correct tool to reach the remaining nuts. Think I need a boxend 13mm that's bent near the box end.

For the record I used a 13mm standard straight boxend to remove 5 of the nuts so far:

Right outside rear
Right outside middle
Right inside middle

Left inside rear
Left outside front.

With the exception of one of the nuts so far where I used heat the 4 last night came off very easily. Most likely due to the fact that the underside is pretty clean and I believe the daily spraying with PB Blaster is having an effect. They just look like they want to come off and I think the PB Blaster is working its way into the threads over time. I've been spraying them for over a week now.

It also appears that the left inside middle and left inside front are going to be tough without removing the return tubes (which are both leaking and need to be removed anyway). I will need to crush them to get them out as they don't fit with the TR and air injectors in the way.

Can anyone recommend a process/product so I can start cleaning the underside and parts? I'm guessing there are better and not as good cleaning products (similar to wd40 vs PB Blaster). Do I use a wire brush or something softer?

bleachii

Tried to get some work done last night but ended up staring at the car for about 45 minutes before ending up at the neighbors having one too many Dark N Stormies. I did hit the store last night for another 13mm box wrench to custom bend today. Also a hacksaw in case I decided to cut it.

Used the MAPP torch to heat the wrench and bend the box end for a more custom fit. Was able to use no heat and just this custom wrench to remove:

Left inside front
Left inside middle
Right inside front

Then needed heat and a combo of 13mm 1/4 drive adjustable socket on a 6 inch extension and 13mm box to remove the Right outside front.

Heat and custom wrench to remove the Right inside rear. Right TR removed at this point.

Heat and open end 13mm to remove the Left outside rear and Left outside middle (most difficult of the 12).

Chased a few Fat Tires as a reward for getting past this stage. While it wasn't that difficult I wouldn't call it easy either. Especially for a first time project. All the trips to the store to research and get the correct tools really slows down the process. Plus I have a ways to go. Lots of cleaning coming up and the return tubes which are very accessible now.

Think I've been putting in 3-4 days a week for anywhere from 1-4 hours since i started. That doesn't include research and Internet time.

Appreciate all the help.