WTB Prussian Blue 930
05-05-2008, 10:44 PM
#17
Three Wheelin'
I remember commenting on your original post several weeks back. At the time, you were looking for a blue (I don't think you were hard set on Prussian, then) low-mileage 930. I can see you're still searching, which is good. Seeing that you’re still in the hunt, I have a few comments/suggestions, having just ended (within the past year) my own "looking for an original, low-mileage 930” search. Right off the bat, I'll tell you the best advice I can give, having seen A LOT of cars and A LOT of sellers over the considerable amount of time I was looking for the "perfect" 930:
If you want to **** yourself off, look for a specific car with specific options in a specific color with specific mileage.
I had originally set my sights similar to yours, but I was looking for less than 30k (explanation to follow). With mileage in the 20-30k range you'll often get a car with some pretty important mx issues already accomplished (clutch and seals in my case). This will prevent you from dumping multiple thousands into your "new" low-mileage car after you already paid a premium for it. If you are looking at a car with less than 20k... then be ready for mx issues. People here get pretty nervous with the impossibly low-mileage, time capsule cars for this reason - and you can offset it by going for slightly (10k or so) higher mileage in exchange for the more comprehensive mx.
I'm assuming you've owned a 930 before because of your interest in them - that's a good thing, and a leg up on the experience level I had in looking for one. But I can also tell you, there will be SOMETHING wrong with every car you look at. The 15k original car that you're after will have an aftermarket stereo... bolster wear on the driver’s seat… an uneven rubber lip... paint work to repair stone chips... "drivability" modifications... the list goes on and on.
Now add to that the fact that you are looking for a car without all of those things in a specific, RARE color - and you have a pretty frustrating task ahead of you as well as behind you. Maybe you're a more patient person than I was (am), but I would be very, very careful about passing on an extremely good car in your hunt for "perfection" because you may never wind up being satisfied.
Are you buying this car as a collector piece? I only ask because the museum-range mileage means something to people like you and I... but you had really better be prepared to pay for it. The days of finding an original 86-88 U.S. car with sub 20K on the odo for less than $45K are over (89s have been beyond this price point for well over a year). Good, documented later cars w/mileage in the 50s are going in the low to mid $40k range. Reference: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1987-...em110236817967 & http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1987-...QQcmdZViewItem. With sellers seeing these numbers, you are going to have a hard time getting a sub 20K car for less than $50k - maybe more.
This is what leads to my next point. If you're buying the vehicle as an investment, then fine - it's good that you're being picky in going after something you really want (even if blue may not appeal to the widest range of future buyers). If you're buying it to drive, and just want a particular color... then what exactly are you accomplishing by not paying less $$$ in the first place? If you drive it then you are eventually going to have to deal with all the usual suspects that you were trying to avoid in the first place – except now you’ll be inflicting the wear and tear yourself. Suddenly, the car you bought because it was "perfect" and paid a premium for is just like every other car out there - except you have a lot more money in it.
All of this having been said, I have my own theory on mileage with these cars (just like everyone else on here). It differs for various Porsches (if you tell a 944, 928 or 3.0 or .2 NA 911 owner that 70K is "normal" they'll laugh in your face), but I consider mileage on these vehicles in the 50-80K range to be "normal." Less than 50 on down to the 30K range is "low." Sub 30 is very low and less than 10-20K is "museum" - if you drive a car with less than 20K or (heaven forbid) less than 10 in anything even approaching regularity, you are going to very rapidly lose the premium you paid for it - even before grandma swings the door of her Crown Vic into it at Kroger’s.
This is how I arrived at my decision. I wound up going for a car in the 20-40k mileage range that was absolutely stock (down the stereo - good luck with that one). Color didn't really matter to me. It took me 2 years to find the car with cash in hand. That is what you are up against.
Anyway, I'm sure you have already considered all of this - but I just wanted to throw it out there for the sake of discussion. Low mileage cars are really, really fun – in a geeky way. It’s just really cool to still have the QC paint on the wiper arms, the seat bolts, etc. Good luck in your search - I've been keeping an eye out for you (particularly in PML - do you receive this publication?) ever since I saw your first post.
Micah
If you want to **** yourself off, look for a specific car with specific options in a specific color with specific mileage.
I had originally set my sights similar to yours, but I was looking for less than 30k (explanation to follow). With mileage in the 20-30k range you'll often get a car with some pretty important mx issues already accomplished (clutch and seals in my case). This will prevent you from dumping multiple thousands into your "new" low-mileage car after you already paid a premium for it. If you are looking at a car with less than 20k... then be ready for mx issues. People here get pretty nervous with the impossibly low-mileage, time capsule cars for this reason - and you can offset it by going for slightly (10k or so) higher mileage in exchange for the more comprehensive mx.
I'm assuming you've owned a 930 before because of your interest in them - that's a good thing, and a leg up on the experience level I had in looking for one. But I can also tell you, there will be SOMETHING wrong with every car you look at. The 15k original car that you're after will have an aftermarket stereo... bolster wear on the driver’s seat… an uneven rubber lip... paint work to repair stone chips... "drivability" modifications... the list goes on and on.
Now add to that the fact that you are looking for a car without all of those things in a specific, RARE color - and you have a pretty frustrating task ahead of you as well as behind you. Maybe you're a more patient person than I was (am), but I would be very, very careful about passing on an extremely good car in your hunt for "perfection" because you may never wind up being satisfied.
Are you buying this car as a collector piece? I only ask because the museum-range mileage means something to people like you and I... but you had really better be prepared to pay for it. The days of finding an original 86-88 U.S. car with sub 20K on the odo for less than $45K are over (89s have been beyond this price point for well over a year). Good, documented later cars w/mileage in the 50s are going in the low to mid $40k range. Reference: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1987-...em110236817967 & http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1987-...QQcmdZViewItem. With sellers seeing these numbers, you are going to have a hard time getting a sub 20K car for less than $50k - maybe more.
This is what leads to my next point. If you're buying the vehicle as an investment, then fine - it's good that you're being picky in going after something you really want (even if blue may not appeal to the widest range of future buyers). If you're buying it to drive, and just want a particular color... then what exactly are you accomplishing by not paying less $$$ in the first place? If you drive it then you are eventually going to have to deal with all the usual suspects that you were trying to avoid in the first place – except now you’ll be inflicting the wear and tear yourself. Suddenly, the car you bought because it was "perfect" and paid a premium for is just like every other car out there - except you have a lot more money in it.
All of this having been said, I have my own theory on mileage with these cars (just like everyone else on here). It differs for various Porsches (if you tell a 944, 928 or 3.0 or .2 NA 911 owner that 70K is "normal" they'll laugh in your face), but I consider mileage on these vehicles in the 50-80K range to be "normal." Less than 50 on down to the 30K range is "low." Sub 30 is very low and less than 10-20K is "museum" - if you drive a car with less than 20K or (heaven forbid) less than 10 in anything even approaching regularity, you are going to very rapidly lose the premium you paid for it - even before grandma swings the door of her Crown Vic into it at Kroger’s.
This is how I arrived at my decision. I wound up going for a car in the 20-40k mileage range that was absolutely stock (down the stereo - good luck with that one). Color didn't really matter to me. It took me 2 years to find the car with cash in hand. That is what you are up against.
Anyway, I'm sure you have already considered all of this - but I just wanted to throw it out there for the sake of discussion. Low mileage cars are really, really fun – in a geeky way. It’s just really cool to still have the QC paint on the wiper arms, the seat bolts, etc. Good luck in your search - I've been keeping an eye out for you (particularly in PML - do you receive this publication?) ever since I saw your first post.
Micah
05-05-2008, 11:14 PM
#18
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Very well put Micah (IMO), I've been reading this thinking the same. Everyone's got their own things that blow their skirt up, but when you're talking about 20+ year old lower production cars that are typically "enjoyed" both in use and in mods - it's hard to deny reality.
Funny Micah, I ended up getting a similar car as you but it just sort of happened and it worked out that way (go figure?) - 39k bone stock (stereo, bedamned the fact the LCD don't work heh heh), unfester'd with, and $13 large of mx receipts in the 2yrs prior. I was willing to look past the ohsofew faux pas the car had (not to mention the fact I vowed to never own a red car - like them, just not for me - d'oh!) due to these compelling factors.
I do wish you luck tho in your quest as well - report back. I for one *really* dig that color - one of my faves in general on any car for some odd reason - hey I'm weird.
-Paul
www.krasusky.photos.us.com
Funny Micah, I ended up getting a similar car as you but it just sort of happened and it worked out that way (go figure?) - 39k bone stock (stereo, bedamned the fact the LCD don't work heh heh), unfester'd with, and $13 large of mx receipts in the 2yrs prior. I was willing to look past the ohsofew faux pas the car had (not to mention the fact I vowed to never own a red car - like them, just not for me - d'oh!) due to these compelling factors.
I do wish you luck tho in your quest as well - report back. I for one *really* dig that color - one of my faves in general on any car for some odd reason - hey I'm weird.
-Paul
www.krasusky.photos.us.com
05-06-2008, 12:05 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Micah & Paul...I thank you for your time with your valuable response. I need to up the 20k to 30k I guess to be more realistic but I am a very patient guy...good things always happened to me when I was patient and my emotions didnt get the best of me. I need to be very positive about my search as I only plan to drive it on great weather when and if time permits and most importantly take good care of her...give her the detail of an entire day or even longer. I already have a collector black 930 with ~4,500 miles...it is pure museum quality I kid you not. The seats look like they are brand new and the car is unbelieveable with all its orange peel looks. I cant get myself to drive this car...plus its a RUF and now I am the second owner. That is why I need another 930 to drive...I'm sick in the head i guess cause every car I look at I compare the quality to this black one...this will definitely make the hunt even more difficult, but at least I have narrowed it down to prussian blue or granite green...I dunno but granite green looks kinda old tough guy look on a 930. Something about the color makes it look even more classic to me. Prussian is just plain beautiful beyond what words can describe. It's shine when hit with the sun...wow! Gets me all excited!
Anyway...I'm crazy...that's me. Need another 930 to love.
Anyway...I'm crazy...that's me. Need another 930 to love.
05-06-2008, 12:27 AM
#20
Three Wheelin'
I completely understand, and if money is no object then more power to you! I don't think you need to be more lax on your mileage criteria - you've already filled the "930 void" that every automobile owner has (even if they don't realize it yet) with an AWESOME example. I just wanted to comment on some of the things I noticed during my own search that were also being reflected in yours. If you've already got a 930, have the money and want another one - then hell, I say be as picky as you want. My comments were really coming from the perspective that there is a ticking clock for no-stories, low-mileage cars out there, and if you didn't have one already, then it's only going to get more difficult with time. Obviously that's not an issue for you! I can't imagine what is must be like to own an example with 4,500 miles!
I've really been keeping my eyes open for you ever since that first post and will continue to do so. I still have my subscription to PML, and I've looked through each issue for you. I have a hunch that may be where one pops up.
Paul, isn't that funny about the stereos? I'm completely with you - IMHO, if the car has originality right down the old Blau, then I'm hooked. I guess that level of originality is kind of a litmus test regarding how the previous owner(s) viewed/treated the car.
Your car is beautiful, BTW - I can see you are a Sport Seats guy, too - once you have 'em, you can't go back
I'm betting she's got a LSD tucked in there, too! Those two options always seem to run together!
Micah
I've really been keeping my eyes open for you ever since that first post and will continue to do so. I still have my subscription to PML, and I've looked through each issue for you. I have a hunch that may be where one pops up.
Paul, isn't that funny about the stereos? I'm completely with you - IMHO, if the car has originality right down the old Blau, then I'm hooked. I guess that level of originality is kind of a litmus test regarding how the previous owner(s) viewed/treated the car.
Your car is beautiful, BTW - I can see you are a Sport Seats guy, too - once you have 'em, you can't go back
I'm betting she's got a LSD tucked in there, too! Those two options always seem to run together! Micah
05-06-2008, 10:11 AM
#21
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Wow Mr. Ruf, that is *insane* - 4,500 mile Ruf? Good for you! Like you said tho, that's a tough one... you can never drive it! Oy, the problems we all have huh? Great you're looking to score another, that's too funny.
Agreed w/ Micah then - be as picky as you damn well please! You can afford to since you've already waymore than covered the base of "museum piece". Funny we have same taste in colors - I love granite green, only seen one once on the highway and was awestricken, nearly ran off the road. I hope it works out for you, I think you'll persevere.
Thanks for the thoughts on mine Micah appreciate that. Man do I need to update my site w/ new pics, those were from the night I got it and was redoing garage, d'oh. TOTALLY agree - sport seats for the ****** F'n WIN! I was giddily surprised when I came to see the car that it had them, and in black (not a tan fan personally).
Also agree on the presence of the 'ole Blau correlating to the PO's mindset, etc. I gotta yank mine tho, it ate a tape and won't eject. Will send out for refurb I guess to cure that and LCD. Interesting thought on the limited slip'er in common conjunction with the sport seats. I finally got around to checking my option decal underhood this week - to my dismay it's gone. Ah well. I only got the car last fall so haven't had a wheel off yet (new brakes all 4 corners so no need yet heh heh), but I'm dying to know if LSD is there or not - sure f'n hope so that'd be killer.
Anywho...
Again good luck to you in your quest for an uber colored gem!
-Paul
www.krasusky.photos.us.com
Agreed w/ Micah then - be as picky as you damn well please! You can afford to since you've already waymore than covered the base of "museum piece". Funny we have same taste in colors - I love granite green, only seen one once on the highway and was awestricken, nearly ran off the road. I hope it works out for you, I think you'll persevere.
Thanks for the thoughts on mine Micah appreciate that. Man do I need to update my site w/ new pics, those were from the night I got it and was redoing garage, d'oh. TOTALLY agree - sport seats for the ****** F'n WIN! I was giddily surprised when I came to see the car that it had them, and in black (not a tan fan personally).
Also agree on the presence of the 'ole Blau correlating to the PO's mindset, etc. I gotta yank mine tho, it ate a tape and won't eject. Will send out for refurb I guess to cure that and LCD. Interesting thought on the limited slip'er in common conjunction with the sport seats. I finally got around to checking my option decal underhood this week - to my dismay it's gone. Ah well. I only got the car last fall so haven't had a wheel off yet (new brakes all 4 corners so no need yet heh heh), but I'm dying to know if LSD is there or not - sure f'n hope so that'd be killer.
Anywho...
Again good luck to you in your quest for an uber colored gem!
-Paul
www.krasusky.photos.us.com
05-06-2008, 11:27 AM
#22
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Micah & Paul - Thanks again for supporting my search...I am very happy about the black one but unfortunately I cant drive it. Gotta preserve what porsche sent us buyers to do to them...race them hard! Anyway, I appreciate the help finding these 2 colors (granite and prussian) via PML. What is PML anyway? Do PCA members get that publication?
My friends and girlfriend are all teasing me that when I do in fact find it I dont drive it either. I'll just look at it for hours with a huge grin on my face. They're like who are you kidding...you know damn well you arent gonna drive it even in perfect weather...hahaha...something tells me they know me better than I know myself. hah! I have to get myself to drive it...I promised them.
I will post pics as soon as I locate one that is ideal for me.
Did Porsche ever disclose the number of 930s produced in each color?
Someone must have this...this will make decision making easier.
Jim
My friends and girlfriend are all teasing me that when I do in fact find it I dont drive it either. I'll just look at it for hours with a huge grin on my face. They're like who are you kidding...you know damn well you arent gonna drive it even in perfect weather...hahaha...something tells me they know me better than I know myself. hah! I have to get myself to drive it...I promised them.
I will post pics as soon as I locate one that is ideal for me.
Did Porsche ever disclose the number of 930s produced in each color?
Someone must have this...this will make decision making easier.
Jim
05-06-2008, 12:14 PM
#23
Three Wheelin'
PML is Porsche Market Letter - http://www.pmletter.com/. It's a monthly classified that sees a lot of lower mileage cars that folks don't really advertise. It also has a lot of dealers... so if you find a good one, that's always a "nice" pinch when you first call. You'll see some familiar names associated with the articles in the magazine as well - Bruce Anderson and Jim Pasha to name a few.
The subscription is a bit much for what it is - but I have seen a lot of cars go through there. My interest in the magazine peaked when John Witmer (of AIC auto.com) had a car I liked and I called him on it. He started talking about PML, and I realized that he (and probably a lot of other speciality dealers) were using it to search for cars for their inventory.
PCA might actually have the color info; I'm not sure if any commercially available books go into that kind of serious detail.
And Paul, that's bad *** that you're keeping it real and playing tapes in 'er! I've actually tried to find some new tapes locally (you can sometimes still find "worthy" bands - I'm talking Styx, .38 Special, etc in gas stations) but haven't had any success yet. Truck stops can be goldmines, too - that's probably where I'll head to next
I have to know... what tape were you listening to when it got stuck?
Micah
The subscription is a bit much for what it is - but I have seen a lot of cars go through there. My interest in the magazine peaked when John Witmer (of AIC auto.com) had a car I liked and I called him on it. He started talking about PML, and I realized that he (and probably a lot of other speciality dealers) were using it to search for cars for their inventory.
PCA might actually have the color info; I'm not sure if any commercially available books go into that kind of serious detail.
And Paul, that's bad *** that you're keeping it real and playing tapes in 'er! I've actually tried to find some new tapes locally (you can sometimes still find "worthy" bands - I'm talking Styx, .38 Special, etc in gas stations) but haven't had any success yet. Truck stops can be goldmines, too - that's probably where I'll head to next
I have to know... what tape were you listening to when it got stuck?
Micah
05-06-2008, 12:27 PM
#24
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And Paul, that's bad *** that you're keeping it real and playing tapes in 'er! I've actually tried to find some new tapes locally (you can sometimes still find "worthy" bands - I'm talking Styx, .38 Special, etc in gas stations) but haven't had any success yet. Truck stops can be goldmines, too - that's probably where I'll head to next
I have to know... what tape were you listening to when it got stuck?
I have to know... what tape were you listening to when it got stuck?
Bwhahahahaaa... you're too funny. Jah mon... still rockin the tapes in it - 'twas Bob Marley's Babylon By Bus that's jammed in there now 8-). Sorry to disappoint, no ammo to give you with like Barry Manilow or anything. I still have all my old tapes and could pop in a whole assortment of random hilarity @ any moment - good call on Styx btw heh heh.
The unit was working fine, the "jam" correlated to this STOOPID short I have somewhere in the door switch for the dome light. Open the door, and the power to the head unit "pops". PO cut out an aftermarket CD changer (REALLY keeping it REAL) but apparently f'd something up in doing so, I've got a cluster of cut wire under the dash now and need to spend some time figuring it out - to which I'm clueless how - d'oh.
Funny stuff.
-Paul
www.krasusky.photos.us.com
