I need to run car without air filter box???
10-25-2007, 05:48 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
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Be careful of getting the that thing wet (driving or washing the car). It would be interesting to calculate surface area vs stock too. If the diameter of the filter is 10 inches, and its hight is 2 in, then the surface area is only 62 sq in. Lets assume the stock filter is 10in by 8 in (80 sq in). That would mean the stock filter provides 29% more area or flow. The new filter would have to be 3 in tall to just to match the area of the stock unit. Other than cleaning up the engine compartment, what is the benefit?
10-26-2007, 12:52 AM
#18
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Don,
You get a few free cool air flapper noises, other than that freeing up the engine compartment is the only benefit. But it's a HUGE one.
As a data point, my car ran the 1/8 mile in 8.5 sec @ 90 mph using that filter.
A buddy of mine liked it and put one on his car. Dynoed 400HP to the rear wheels with or without it on.
I "built" that filter deal just for tuning one afternoon and liked it so much I left it on - for the last 3 or so years.
You get a few free cool air flapper noises, other than that freeing up the engine compartment is the only benefit. But it's a HUGE one.
As a data point, my car ran the 1/8 mile in 8.5 sec @ 90 mph using that filter.
A buddy of mine liked it and put one on his car. Dynoed 400HP to the rear wheels with or without it on.
I "built" that filter deal just for tuning one afternoon and liked it so much I left it on - for the last 3 or so years.
10-26-2007, 10:27 AM
#19
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Filter
Be careful of getting the that thing wet (driving or washing the car). It would be interesting to calculate surface area vs stock too. If the diameter of the filter is 10 inches, and its hight is 2 in, then the surface area is only 62 sq in. Lets assume the stock filter is 10in by 8 in (80 sq in). That would mean the stock filter provides 29% more area or flow. The new filter would have to be 3 in tall to just to match the area of the stock unit. Other than cleaning up the engine compartment, what is the benefit?
The K&N is just over 3 inches tall. But as Rarly8 stated, I'm mainly concerned with cleaning up the eng compartment, and as long as I don't lose HP, I'm very happy with this new setup.
Tim
10-26-2007, 01:24 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
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Don,
You get a few free cool air flapper noises, other than that freeing up the engine compartment is the only benefit. But it's a HUGE one.
As a data point, my car ran the 1/8 mile in 8.5 sec @ 90 mph using that filter.
A buddy of mine liked it and put one on his car. Dynoed 400HP to the rear wheels with or without it on.
I "built" that filter deal just for tuning one afternoon and liked it so much I left it on - for the last 3 or so years.
You get a few free cool air flapper noises, other than that freeing up the engine compartment is the only benefit. But it's a HUGE one.
As a data point, my car ran the 1/8 mile in 8.5 sec @ 90 mph using that filter.
A buddy of mine liked it and put one on his car. Dynoed 400HP to the rear wheels with or without it on.
I "built" that filter deal just for tuning one afternoon and liked it so much I left it on - for the last 3 or so years.
The math doesn't work for me. Also, I replaced the much heralded powerflow system with the stock and saw no difference (at a dyno) even with a couple of pulls to make sure I was seeing a side by side comparison. So I drilled and kept the stock unit, then sold the powerflow.
Good debate.
10-26-2007, 02:05 PM
#21
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I assume the math you are referring to is the total filtering area.
Apparently you don't need 80 square inches of filtering area to support 400RWHP, just more frequent filter changes. That stock box narrows down pretty severely before the flapper valve.
I neither advocate or discourage the use of these small paper filters for our application. It is what it is, a small paper filter. What I do know is that the stock assembly is an engineering abomination and K&N filters are a marketing scam. This is a nice cheap tidy easy install that apparently does no harm if the filter is changed frequently.
Apparently you don't need 80 square inches of filtering area to support 400RWHP, just more frequent filter changes. That stock box narrows down pretty severely before the flapper valve.
I neither advocate or discourage the use of these small paper filters for our application. It is what it is, a small paper filter. What I do know is that the stock assembly is an engineering abomination and K&N filters are a marketing scam. This is a nice cheap tidy easy install that apparently does no harm if the filter is changed frequently.
10-26-2007, 02:40 PM
#23
Burning Brakes
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OK - we'll agree to disagree here. I would rather take Porsche's design where they have engineers and R&D money to see what works best rather than someone running time at a drag course. I can't help but think that if a small paper element works so well, that the car maker wouldn't cut cost and use the cheaper unit - especially if it performed better.
And please let me make myself very clear here - I mean no offense by my above comment. If you want to use the chrome and paper element because it looks cool and it cleans up the engine compartment, then there is no logical "argument". If however, you say the chrome and paper element flows or performs better than stock (or any other after-market part for that matter), then prove it with numbers. For the record, I have no allegiance in either direction (stock or after-market). In fact, I use a KN cone filter.....
And please let me make myself very clear here - I mean no offense by my above comment. If you want to use the chrome and paper element because it looks cool and it cleans up the engine compartment, then there is no logical "argument". If however, you say the chrome and paper element flows or performs better than stock (or any other after-market part for that matter), then prove it with numbers. For the record, I have no allegiance in either direction (stock or after-market). In fact, I use a KN cone filter.....
10-26-2007, 03:37 PM
#24
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I just wanted to say I really like the hand fabricated origonal steel air cleaner housing. I sanded the paint off mine and repainted it satin black, and use the K&N element in it.
It's probably an appreciation I learned while working at Gunnar Porsche racing and restoration back in the mid to late eightees.
I bead blasted a bunch of funky old sheet steel parts put together by hand just like the 930 air cleaner housings from old porsches and then they got gold cad plated or painted with satin black coloidellac laquer depending on what finish they were origonally.
Someday in the future people restoring 930's to origonal will probably be paying huge bucks for the origonal housing...
It's probably an appreciation I learned while working at Gunnar Porsche racing and restoration back in the mid to late eightees.
I bead blasted a bunch of funky old sheet steel parts put together by hand just like the 930 air cleaner housings from old porsches and then they got gold cad plated or painted with satin black coloidellac laquer depending on what finish they were origonally.
Someday in the future people restoring 930's to origonal will probably be paying huge bucks for the origonal housing...
Last edited by JFairman; 01-16-2008 at 02:34 PM.
10-27-2007, 12:46 PM
#25
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I never said the little paper filter flows better than stock or adds performance, it does not.
What I did say is that it will support at least 400RWHP and it cleans up the engine bay.
No offense taken. Discussion and sharing ideas and experiences is a good thing.
If anyone needs a stock air assembly unit I probably have half a dozen of them.
By "design abomination" I am speaking strictly of the factory design that mandates you remove the intercooler to get to the air breather to get to the WUR. It's just rediculous.
What I did say is that it will support at least 400RWHP and it cleans up the engine bay.
No offense taken. Discussion and sharing ideas and experiences is a good thing.
If anyone needs a stock air assembly unit I probably have half a dozen of them.
By "design abomination" I am speaking strictly of the factory design that mandates you remove the intercooler to get to the air breather to get to the WUR. It's just rediculous.
