nathanUK '81 930 G50

Hi folks, sorry did not get online yesterday due to family health problems.

I have noticed that Neil Harvey has a poorly updated website. I would think it is best to call him on the telephone. As far as I know you control the unit with a PDA (how cool is that !) and of course once setup you can forget about it. It was supposed to sense RPM and possibly temperatures. Hopefully Neil will tell you more and you can then tell us ! Please do.

Jeff, I only know what I read about the UTCIS on the website, it appeared to me this unit has little benefit for us. I think it would be great for a stock car, but then again why bother with it at all if you have a stock car, i think it would be a waste of money and also you would have to notify your inurance company about a modification that has no benfit to us...

Falk930

any news on this?

Falk

nathanUK '81 930 G50

Can someone in the USA that wants a WUR give Neil a call and get the latest info ?

I would do it but I am not ready yet for one and I am in the UK...

JBL930

Nathan, the UTCIS-PT which is for turbo aplications is not just one adjustment, it has an engine temp sensor which allows you to program cold start and it's mappable using boost pressure, vacuum pressure and RPM, it even has an ambient air temp sensor, i spoke to the guys at Unwired tools and they said it has only just come on the market and there is a two week wait, he also said there are some racing 930's with this unit fitted, has anyone on here had any experience with it? I think it looks really promising but would love to hear if anyone has first hand experience!

nathanUK '81 930 G50

That sounds like it might be worth a try although I would be a little nervous going first. I would prefer it to be tested by someone like Stephen or Brian who has lots of CIS experience, not to mention having the ability to rebuild their engine...

Here is a link to the device.
http://www.unwiredtools.com/utcis.asp

EDIT: They are all pre order only

JBL930

I couldn't wait Nathan I’ve just gone ahead and bought one, I was going to have 911Addict's Adjustable one off him but this is a lot cheaper and I’d still have to get the solenoid. I've been on the phone to the chap at Unwired tools and he has put my mind at rest with the unit, it basically allows you to tune for every 250rpm increment, it bolts straight into the stock location for the WUR, it comes with a base map for a standard 930 and basically I just need to get it dialled in for enrichment etc, it's blue tooth compatible so someone can sit beside me with a laptop and just make all the necessary adjustments as I’m driving as I’ve also got the LM1, it gets it's rpm signal from one of the sparkplug leads and the only other bit to lug in goes under the relay panel on the left hand side of the engine bay. He said if everything fails it has a default setting that would never allow the car to go lean, it basically sounds frickin’ awesome! Obviously I’ll keep everyone informed as I know you'll all be interested, fingers crossed!

nathanUK '81 930 G50

Sounds good. Not so sure about the every 250rpm feature. Maybe someone who tunes EFI can comment on this.

It's a bummer we don't have that solenoid already on our cars. I think it is a USA only feature due to emissions.

EDIT: If you have a bluetooth laptop I would be happy to help you tune it at VMAX. I don't see the point in me participating in my gutless 3.2 carrera...

JBL930

Apparently with the software it's just like tuning EFI albeit not quite as precise as something like Motec, I don't really know enough to go into detail but the way the chap was explaining the set up it is completely mappable, I suppose it would start with deciding on what fuel pressure you want from cold start and then as the temp rises you slowly raise the fuel pressure until it's up to whatever temp you programme in to say it's warm enough for warm fuel pressure, then you simply tell it where on the rpm range you want enrichment to start and by how much, you can map to have a different fuel pressure for every 250rpm therefore getting the exact AFR you want all through the rev range, this way you get gentle enrichment as you need it keeping everything nice and precise. It would be great to hear from those in the know what AFR I should be aiming for through the rev range, should I aim for 12.5 at idle, 14 all the way up to just before boost coming on and then straight back down to 12.2 all the way to the red line?

The main reason I didn't go with the adjustable WUR is it still relies on the bimetallic spring to tell whether the car is hot or cold, I cannot begin to express my frustration at getting out of my car after a long drive and filling it with petrol only to start the car again minutes later and drive off with the thing spluttering and stinking all the way up the road for the first few minutes, I want to be able to get back in the car and lay two 30ft long black lines up the road if I feel like it, to be denied this by some ancient little bit of crap metallic spring thinking the car is now cold really boils my ****!

I don't know enough about computers etc but I would have thought that someone could write a simple programme that would run something like this having almost the same function as an ECU, plug in your wide band, plug in your RPM signal, plug in your boost, plug in your engine temp and then tell the program what AFR you want at what RPM, stick it on a rolling road and tell it to bloody programme itself, surely that is quite possible? Is it just very expensive to develop?

JBL930

I won't have it in time for that i don't think, well certainly not with enough time to fit it, if i have it in my hand i'll bring it along for you to have a nose at. I'm taking the car in to have the CO adjusted on Wednesday, i'll get them to set the CO at 3% (currently at 2.5%) and get the idle AFR at 12.5 (currently at 13.5) and then see where that puts me at the top end, it would be nice to really put her through her paces at Mini VMax so a good AFR would put my mind at rest, then i'll get this unit fitted and the EBC and borrow James's AX22 and do some comparisons

nathanUK '81 930 G50

Thinking about it every 250rpm shoould be OK as I forgot that unlike EFI with a map sensor we are still using the metering flap to determine how much air is going into the engine.

I would aim for 12.0 on full boost,
2.2%CO (I think that 2.5% is the MOT limit) at idle or 13.65 AFR
& 14.5 on cruise.

Here is a quote from Geoffrey that also Stephen Kaspar seconded.

Ignoring the fact that CIS is not mappable, in an ideal world (EFI), your AFR will be 14.7-15.0 in the cruise range (light throttle, no boost). As you begin to add load to the engine you need the AFRs to be richer. By 1 bar of boost, you are safe at 12.0-12.2:1. Richer than that and it is a waste. At about 12.5:1 and 1bar of boost you begin to risk melting the engine down. Obviously things like compression, cams, etc. may change the requirements.

This might be of interest to you too.
http://www.mgexperience.net/article/co-afr.html

As for the metal strip it worked fine in my car, I wonder if it just that your mixture is a little off. I did have the idle go slightly high once but that was all.

Even closed loop ECU's are meant to be set open loop to work properly eitherwise it is just always fighting itself. I get what you are saying though and I was under the impression that Autronic tried to do something very similair to what you are saying but it couldn't have worked or everyone would be talking about it. Stephen Kaspar uses Autronic and he says he spends a lot of time fine tuning his conversions!

Yeah, that would be great to see the little device but I am very interested in the software interface.

If you look at the chart what you are saying about about getting your "CO" or "idle AFR" to those numbers is not possible.
I hope that turning up the screw helps your WOT on boost AFR some.

nathanUK '81 930 G50

Just to add to my post and I hope some people will either correct me or second me that at boost threshold (no vacuum & no boost) 13.0 AFR would be a target?

With slight vacuum and no boost (WOT at low rpm or while waiting for spool up) 13.5 AFR would be a target?

Inevitably the WOT on boost AFR, idle AFR for UK emmisions & then the cruise AFR has to be the most important thing?

DDD

JBL:

Post a new thread when you get this thing and hook it up!

Looking forward to hearing about your experience.

JBL930

DDD, I will keep you informed and post pics, dyno graphs and fuel curves etc, I just hope it does what it says on the tin (so to speak)

Nathan, I’m just showing how thick I am, I didn't even realize AFR and CO where inextricably linked (obvious when you think about it) , I also wrongly thought that in a different thread Steven had said I should be aiming for 12.5AFR at Idle and he actually said 13.5AFR which is roughly where I am, it flickers between 13.4 and 13.7 on the LM1 which from the chart on your link it would indicate that the CO is about 2.4% ish and if I was aiming for 3.0% my AFR should read 13.38. I can't remember where I heard that 3.0% was the target BTW, have I got that wrong? What should the CO% be at idle?

I have a MAC at home and in the office and the software for the unit is windows based so I can't check it out, I can e-mail it to you so you can have a look if you like, I will have to borrow a windows based laptop off someone to do any tuning, I will use Paul at Northway to do the actual tuning BTW as I know bugger all, I’m sure he can familiarize himself with the software first and then he can make all of the necessary tweaks with regards to vacuum and boost, part throttle and full throttle etc, I don't expect super EFI style fuel economy and response, I’m just after something to keep my AFR in the safe range without wasting fuel and to get rid of that bimetallic spring.
Let me know if you want me to forward you a copy of the software, the chap at UT was saying that once the unit is on a few cars we'll benefit from being able to swap maps, if someone with a similar set up is showing better figures or better economy, more mid range power or whatever we can exchange files which would be great

JBL930

One more question, is there anyone out there, Steven, Geoff, Kevin (among too many others to list), any of you guys with masses of CIS and EFI experience that can see something fundamentally flawed here, in my (clearly) very limited understanding am i missing something obvious that makes this unit a white elephant, is it simply not possible to get so much control over CIS by raising and dropping the control pressure with a gizmo like this relying on vacuum, boost, engine temp, ambient air temp and RPM for its control and mapping. I'm expecting someone to say "it's bogus Jonathan, the metering head is sluggish, it simply won't respond quickly enough to a change in control pressure for you to make such fine adjustments, you'll just end up chasing your tail, you'll get full throttle enrichment right and then it won't respond quick enough to vacuum and you'll be firing 4ft flames out the back, you dial that out and you go way too lean on cruise, sort that and your lean at the top end and then back to square one" What do you the Gurus think?

JBL930

I've got Vista installed on the mac at work now so managed to have a quick look, it seams simple enough, here are the three main screens...

First the warm up map



Then the main management screen



And a graph




Thoughts and advice welcome!