Is front mounted oil cooler enough?
08-06-2006, 09:49 PM
#1
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Is front mounted oil cooler enough?
Currently I have engine mounted oil, tube style in fender and large one mounted in front. Front one is just mounted in front of tub. Barely ever see temps much over 180 even on hot days...
Was planning on ditching the tube style one in fender and only having one in front (this is large B&B one, 26" long to end of pods). Also for front one was going to seal around it so air must go through it (not around it) and maybe vent through front of tub.
Will this suffice? ...car is 400+ to ground and only track use.
Was planning on ditching the tube style one in fender and only having one in front (this is large B&B one, 26" long to end of pods). Also for front one was going to seal around it so air must go through it (not around it) and maybe vent through front of tub.
Will this suffice? ...car is 400+ to ground and only track use.
08-06-2006, 10:11 PM
#2
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Hey Joe:
The only cooler I have is up front. I don't have one mounted on the engine. Of course I have close to 20qts of total capacity, but my temps even in mid 90s at VIR barely hit 215.
Brian
The only cooler I have is up front. I don't have one mounted on the engine. Of course I have close to 20qts of total capacity, but my temps even in mid 90s at VIR barely hit 215.
Brian
08-06-2006, 11:09 PM
#3
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I have the engine oil cooler, the fender oil cooler and the air dam oil cooler with the stock oil count. I cooked my motor at VIR when it was in the 90's.
But then I was chasing BKS.....
But then I was chasing BKS.....
08-07-2006, 02:07 PM
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The engine oil cooler almost does nothing for temp control. The biggest problem in adding multiple oil coolers is having enough oil flow volume wise. I have a single oil cooler in the air dam that is run through -16 lines and no engine oil cooler. I actually made a composite panel to restrict air flow to the cooler to get temp in the motor when the outside temp drops below 80°F. Even with the ambient outside is at 95°F the oil temp has a hard time getting to 190°F. I have -20 from the front oil tank to the engine. everything else is -16. If you have -12 lines it is important to have the least amount of fittings to limit the possibility of oil flow restriction. There are also not many oil coolers out there that flow high oil volume and be efficient at cooling.
08-07-2006, 02:26 PM
#7
Former Vendor
I do have the engine cooler - and they actually do help a fair amount. About the same as the 3.2 Carrera cooler. Data from previous 3.0 and 3.6 engined 911s I have owned & wrestled with multiple cooling issues indeed bears this out as true.. Send me a PM if you want details.
THE most important thing to think about....... get cooling for the actual & most severe duty your car will see. Hot track use? Friends who have 2 oil meduim sized coolers on their 930 930s.....not nearly cool enough.
Roughly speaking, two of these plus one center mount
(Yeah I know the rotors are on backwards)
THE most important thing to think about....... get cooling for the actual & most severe duty your car will see. Hot track use? Friends who have 2 oil meduim sized coolers on their 930 930s.....not nearly cool enough.
Roughly speaking, two of these plus one center mount
(Yeah I know the rotors are on backwards)
Last edited by TrackDays247.com; 03-25-2009 at 02:37 PM.
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08-07-2006, 05:42 PM
#8
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What I need to do is go back and fab a shroud like you have. I had removed the stock one to get more air through the louvered vents, but all I've probably done is allow a way for air to go around.
I don't think the rotors are on backwards. It's rotating with the holes sweeping from the center out with top of the pads IIRC.
I don't think the rotors are on backwards. It's rotating with the holes sweeping from the center out with top of the pads IIRC.
Originally Posted by RSRS
(Yeah I know the rotors are on backwards)
08-07-2006, 06:07 PM
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RSRS:
I kind of have to disagree a little, at least based on my experience. I ran in June and July, with the July 4th-5th weekend at the track being probably 95 degrees. 1 cooler, up front, none in the rear, never saw temps over about 215.
Of course that cooler I have up front is pretty big, but I don't have multiple coolers strung together. I have an AN-20 line going from the tank to the engine, with 16 going back to the tank from the engine with 16s going to the cooler (pretty sure they are 16s).
I normally never run in the summer, but I ran last year in July with Viper Days (low 90s) and this year (mid-high 90s) with no problems.
Brian
I kind of have to disagree a little, at least based on my experience. I ran in June and July, with the July 4th-5th weekend at the track being probably 95 degrees. 1 cooler, up front, none in the rear, never saw temps over about 215.
Of course that cooler I have up front is pretty big, but I don't have multiple coolers strung together. I have an AN-20 line going from the tank to the engine, with 16 going back to the tank from the engine with 16s going to the cooler (pretty sure they are 16s).
I normally never run in the summer, but I ran last year in July with Viper Days (low 90s) and this year (mid-high 90s) with no problems.
Brian
08-07-2006, 06:31 PM
#10
Former Vendor
Yeah, yet so much depends on so many variables:
Shrouding
Cooler size
High pressure on cooler face and low for exit
--------
My rotors *are* on backwards ;-)
Contrary to what you'd think, eh? The holes are supposed to sweep forward, *the internal vanes thus sweeping backwards*
The setup above is exactly the opposite.....scooped air is fighting the vaned air.
No wonder I was getting a soft pedal from the moment I owned the car!
Shrouding
Cooler size
High pressure on cooler face and low for exit
--------
My rotors *are* on backwards ;-)
Contrary to what you'd think, eh? The holes are supposed to sweep forward, *the internal vanes thus sweeping backwards*
The setup above is exactly the opposite.....scooped air is fighting the vaned air.
No wonder I was getting a soft pedal from the moment I owned the car!
08-07-2006, 09:50 PM
#11
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I still have the stock oil lines going to front of car (they're pretty big), not sure what AN size they're equiv to.
...interesting too, as I have zero ducting going to fender cooler (matter of fact almost completely blocked) however do have pretty big opening in front bumper. stock oil tank.
Anyone else besides Brian have just one cooler up front and engine cooler?
...interesting too, as I have zero ducting going to fender cooler (matter of fact almost completely blocked) however do have pretty big opening in front bumper. stock oil tank.
Anyone else besides Brian have just one cooler up front and engine cooler?
Last edited by JoeMag; 12-18-2012 at 01:15 PM.
08-08-2006, 07:32 AM
#12
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Hi Joe,
Hope you are well...
On my previous 935 car which was in the 600HP range I had only 1 huge Motorsport Design oil cooler in the front. However the tub was cut as was the hood and there was alum shrouding that let the air flow from the cooler out the hood.
I would guess that your cooler would be much more efficient if you had the air exit so you ended up getting more air flow through the front cooler.
But given your current oil temps, I would think you should be fine the way you are setup. Your temps may go up a little, but just so you are running a good synthetic oil, you should be fine.
As a quick test, why not leave in your fender cooler and simply disconnect it and use a union fitting to connect the oil lines together. That way you can run a real world test.
For what's its worth, my older 935 race car oil temps ran pretty high but that was due to the high boost. I used to run 1.5 bar for enduro races (1-3 hours) with no problems - but so much internal work with special coating and electronic injection had been done to make it live. However, my oil temps were 240 -260 in that car with Mobil1.
With my GT2, it is much newer and more efficient, 824HP at 1.2 bar with oil temps 210-220...
PS - Are you running the NASA race at MidOh this weekend? What about the Nationals?
Norm
Hope you are well...
On my previous 935 car which was in the 600HP range I had only 1 huge Motorsport Design oil cooler in the front. However the tub was cut as was the hood and there was alum shrouding that let the air flow from the cooler out the hood.
I would guess that your cooler would be much more efficient if you had the air exit so you ended up getting more air flow through the front cooler.
But given your current oil temps, I would think you should be fine the way you are setup. Your temps may go up a little, but just so you are running a good synthetic oil, you should be fine.
As a quick test, why not leave in your fender cooler and simply disconnect it and use a union fitting to connect the oil lines together. That way you can run a real world test.
For what's its worth, my older 935 race car oil temps ran pretty high but that was due to the high boost. I used to run 1.5 bar for enduro races (1-3 hours) with no problems - but so much internal work with special coating and electronic injection had been done to make it live. However, my oil temps were 240 -260 in that car with Mobil1.
With my GT2, it is much newer and more efficient, 824HP at 1.2 bar with oil temps 210-220...
PS - Are you running the NASA race at MidOh this weekend? What about the Nationals?
Norm
08-08-2006, 01:53 PM
#14
I'm interested in this topic also. I have a 78 EFI 930 that is trackified; probably will run 550 hp while at the track, at 0.9 bar. I have no engine cooler; a 993 filter console has replaced it. I have a Fluidyne double pass cooler, with a fan, that I've placed in the right front fender in series with a large Setrab 272 cooler (22.5 in by 7.25 in by 2 in) that I've mounted in the center front. I'm running a stock oil tank and factory lines to the front, with a combination of -12 and "factory" metric hoses (the kind with 30 mm fittings). Using a 930 S valence, with the fog light holes cut out for airflow to the fender cooler, and a removable turn signal light for track duty. I'm not cutting the tub to do this -- but (at least) the bottom half of the center cooler hangs below the tub and the top half stands away from it by about 1.5 in. I'm hoping that will be enough. The center cooler fits tightly to the opening on the valence, so no air spills around, and the right front cavity is boxed in so that all the air that comes through the right front openings will pass through the cooler I'm close to completion and looking forward to seeing whether this will be enough. If not, I have the option of adding a third cooler on the driver side.
I agree with those who say it's all about air flow, so I'm doing my best to duct and direct the maximum amount of air through the coolers. Time will tell how well this will work. I am concerned, though, about the vulnerability of the front cooler...
I agree with those who say it's all about air flow, so I'm doing my best to duct and direct the maximum amount of air through the coolers. Time will tell how well this will work. I am concerned, though, about the vulnerability of the front cooler...
Last edited by Rob S; 08-10-2006 at 02:38 PM.
