Riverflyer,

I recognize you from Fchat!!! Glad to see that you are doing your homework!!!

I am somewhat of a newbie myself...I just purchased my 930 6 months ago...and like you, I too did my homework before pulling the trigger.

To answer your question about the handling of the 930, the cars CAN HANDLE. They do, however, require a different level of finesse to wring them out in the twisties, but it is nothing that you cannot get the hang of.

If you are looking for pure rawness, the 930 is going to be the better choice. If you want to be able to idle all day long in summertime traffic with the AC blowing cold, the later turbos are more for you. These cars can be made pretty much as fast as your heart desires, and In my personal opinion, the 930s are the true essence of PORSCHE. Drive one, and this will make more sense.

Personally, I recommend buying a car that is either stock or lightly modded. That way you can get to know the car before getting outrageous...

If you ever want to talk about the actual driving experience, PM me and I will send you my info. I am not sure where you are located, but you are welcome to stop by and drive mine if it would help you in your decision making process...

Cajun

 

EEYYOOOWWW! riverflyer, I'm afraid you've been seriously led astray on 930 handling. Knowing we're prejudiced of course, but the 930 is one of the best handling cars on the road once you learn to drive it properly and a few idiosynchroncies it has such as the rear engine, and turbo lag. Now in the hands of the inexperienced/careless driver this car will kill you just as soon as look at you, but you are going to die while going at a very high rate of speed! Its got really nasty trailing throttle tendencies, and if you're not brave enough to push down the accelerator pedal way in front of when you think you should, or have experience with, to get the boost on line, it will step out and can be difficult to gather back up if you can at all. But, its got great steering (not light as it has no power assist but very precise), its got brakes as big as you can imagine with direct lineage to the 917 race car, just be sure to use them in a straight line until you are very experienced, just about more rubber to grip the road than any car in production, and once the boost is in, power like you can't believe. A bonus is that in addition to all of this raw brutal racing heritage, its very docile to drive around town like any other street car. But of course you wouldn't/didn't buy it to drive that way did you? ;-)

 

According to flat-6.net here are the weights:
930 2961
964T 3239
993TT 3491 100# of which is the AWD which can be removed.

The older cars can handle well but you'll just have to do the work instead of the car doing it for you which is precisely why people love them.

c

 

I have a 78 (for sale) and a 96. Both cars are heavily modded. The 78 is a 3.4L with all the usu. mods K27HiFloS, then a bunch more. It is fast and raw and awesome. It feels faster in a straight line than the new one, and the idea of the sale saddens me, but it is my 3rd 930 and once I finally got it set up, I decided it was time for a really big upgrade. Both have seen a handful of DE events and this weekend I'll be at watkins glen with the 96 while the 78 goes in for a valve adj. and leakdown in final prep for sale. I have learned so much about driving a porsche with the 78, which you can't take away from me.
The suspension I have in the 78 is more biased to the street while the setup I have the in 96 is re-valved PSS9's and much more geared to the track. So on the track now the 78 is no match for the 96, but the 96 will never have that rush of the lag/blast of the 930 . Although I do have a 20 minute video chasing a 996 GT3 at watkins glen where the only time it gains on me is a little down the front and the back straight.
I attribute that to really learning how to drive the thing and knowing where its limits are. The 996GT3 can handle way better on a track than a 930, but if I can stick a 78 930 on a GT3's bumper thru the turns...well I think the best way to describe it is that the GT3 could have pushed it harder, but the driver just didn't feel comfortable taking it there.

I fully endorse learning how to drive one of the old cars really well before graduating to a newer more refined Porsche.

In short, both are a total thrill to drive on and off the track, and it is a treat to have them both in my garage, however between the golf and the fishing and the track events and the harley, I have too many hobies and not enough money or free time for the both of them, and the lucky buyer of my 78 is going to get one helluva car for the money!

 

I sent you a pm with my contact info and JHunter also.

 

Guys we forgot our manners, WELCOME Riverflyer! BTW Yasin slownrusty is seemingly a very passionate person who shares his delight vociferously. I don't know Yasin personally, however, I can say our limited communication here on this board can often be misconstrued as malintentioned but more often than not what you find is the sort of rabid zealous behavior associated mad people. I assure you sir we ARE mad I mean CRAZY absolutely certifiable. Often on this board you will find guys who have spent more on these cars than we can ever hope to recover and we do it because of our passion. Damn I am beginning to sound like Barry Meguiar.

 

River – Wow…did not realize you had such thin skin….I am the devil’s advocate in many instances, but its only out of fun (and trust me I DO like to have fun - I am a car guy to my dying day on this planet). I do try and make the other person think and instigate some thought and open discussion. Don’t get offended or get defensive.

Back to your original question……you are asking a question that we could take all day to openly discuss and never find an answer or resolution too…ask 10 different people, you will probably get 10 different questions.

You simply CANNOT compare a 930 to a 964 to a 993.

The 930 has changed very little since their first intro in 1975 with brake, power and comfort improvements made in 1979 and subtly through the ‘80s….with only year offering a 5 speed – 1989.

You cannot even compare a 964 to a 930….same engine (to ’94) but different turbo, different IC, 40more hp, no torsion bars…better A\C – completely different beast.

And the 993 – that is in a league of its own…they start at 400hp, where most 930 owners quit….

You can pick-up a 930 for as low as $22K…964s are in the $40-55+K range and 993 are easily up to $75K…so alone on price you are not comparing apples to apples….

But buy a $22K 930 and sink say $25K -$30K (yes a lot of $$$ I know) into performance and suspension and you will have a weapon that only a sliver of talented drivers can control or truly appreciate…a car that will probably not be able to be driven at 10/10ths.

My attention was to not “brow-beat” a newbie…but the 930 has gotten a bad rap for being a poor or unpredictable handler and very agricultural or primitive when this is the same car that founded Porsche’s incredible racing history…torsion bar suspension and all. The bad reputation comes from inexperienced drivers that have destroyed their cars, the 930 is a car that requires a driver that is skilled, attentive and knowledgeable…here is proof that is only a few days old…look at the pictures VERY carefully and read the thread:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...hreadid=279794

Alot of this 930 speculation originates from people who have never driven in one let alone own one (such as your friend). This car will not handle like your Boxster, which is a roller skate in comparison. Many many people have come on here and asked the same question as you (most compare the 964 and the 930) and then leave after only a couple of posts to buy a 964 due to it being more civil and generally more modern.

The problem with the internet and automotive based forums is that people read read read posts and then suddenly become subject matter experts, I am not saying this applies to you, but it is a common occurrence these days. The only way to really know is to do it yourself. Point and case ….on that Ferrari V12 picture you posted and own…do you synchronize those DCOE Webers yourself?? If you do then….I bow down to you with great admiration especially if you live in a damp-ish climate with lots of changes in atmospheric pressure through the day.

If you want helpful info on Rennlist, modifying and working on 930s do a “SEARCH” under my username and the word “pictorial” and see how I have contributed to this site in the short time I have been a member and then ask if I represent the common tenor here. You asked about the weight of a 930…does this help you (look at the digital scale on the building) – many owners were speculating so I decided to actually find out and now we know exactly what a stock 930 weighs:


As for my personal experience, I could not personally afford a 993 but I could afford a 964 and 930. The 930 would still be my choice even if I could afford a brand new 997TT, they will always always have a special place in my heart (and garage).

Have a great day and lighten up buddy.

Yasin

P.S: Schnele - thanks for your reply! and yes you sound like Barry...LOL...forget that game of Scrable I challenged you...you would kill me...LOL!

 

River, it depends what you really want. Raw sounds glamourous but the reality of it may be different than your fantasy of it. I refer to fantasy vs reality meaning how we imagine something we haven't experienced will be vs how it really is. This is very true with mods. We fantasize about the improvement we expect will happen. Post installation, we experience the reality which is often somewhat less improvement than anticipated, or none, plus other compromises that come into play that our fantasy never included, like tire rubbing, slower acceleration because of big tire and wheel weight, harsher ride, etc.

Regarding the 930, you REALLY need to experience one to feel how it drives and reacts, the noises it makes, how you sit in it. Then find a 964 or 993 turbo and do the same thing. One of the three will be a lot closer to your fantasy than the others and you'll make the right choice for you.

Financially, each car in stock form is a fair increase in performance and overall superiority and drivability (I'm thinking air conditioning here) to the previous generation. You can buy a stock 993 turbo or buy a stock 930 and spend as much as the stock 993 turbo in mods (here is a somewhat representative sample of that direction: https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=271013). Depends what you like, how you like to spend your money, what you think your insurance will cover if there is a problem, and what you like to get back when you sell.

Good luck in finding the right car for you!

 

Riverflyer,

As you are discovering, the 911 turbo is a unique beast with a unique, cult following. With the exception of some minor changes the 78 through 88 turbos are all the same cars. The 78-79 cars had "floating rotors" (easily replaced with the less expensive later version) and were a little lighter (about 150lbs). the later cars were pretty much the same until 89 with the hydrualic 5 spd (a MUCH better transmission and I've owned both...).

All the pre-91 cars are torsion bar cars and have their own unique perspective on how to deal with a corner... However, they are easily adjustable and great track suspensions up to about 500hp. They don't have the flexibilty in terms of ride/handling tradeoff of a coilover setup (91 plus), but they aren't bad.

All these cars had a 3.3L engine with an antiquated fuel delivery system good for about 450hp (at which point you HAVE to go to EFI). It is easy to get 450hp out of these cars with cams, turbos, exhaust and an intercooler. 450hp and 2800lbs is FUN!

These cars are raw. They buck and kick off boost and aren't a mercedes. The 91-94 cars aren't a lot better because they used basically the same setup. In order to keep the engine cool and from blowing up, you have to run rich and gas mileage is a little short of a prius...

The 3.3L can be upgraded to 600hp or more depending on how well you've done in the stock market the last several years. The lag myth has been overplayed to some degree and it's easy to get rid of a lot of it, but if you want a lot of horsepower you are going to get a torque curve that goes vertical at some point (even in an N/A engine). The only reason you *feel* the lag so much more is because the car is making so much more power. You can get a 930 to make more torque than an N/A engine at 2800 rpms, but it feels more laggy because the torque ramps up so much from there.

The brakes on these cars are nothing short of awesome as they came off of the 917 race cars that hit 220mph plus on the mulsanne straight at le mans.

The 91-92 cars had the same engine (basically) with better A/C, ABS and coilovers. It's a *nicer* car and much better suited for taking a date to dinner (993 is even better). They are probably actually slower than the 930 because of the additional weight (maybe a little quicker on the track due to better suspension). The 94 is a unique beast with a bigger engine (same old fuel management) with a cult amid the cult.

The 993 is even quiter, faster and heavier and even better as a dinner companion, but you can feel all that stuff. It's like 600lbs more in basically the same size body. Everything works really well and it feels like more of a GT car to the 930s raw power. It has a 3.6L engine with modern fuel injection and 400 hp. You can get it to 450hp or so with some simple stuff and 600 hp with bigger turbos and all the goodies. It's a GREAT car.

I've got an 89 930 cabriolet and have owned a 78 and an 88 (both 4spds). My car has fuel injection and about 600hp. It's very raw and crazy fun and fast.

If you want a really fast car with a lot of the turbo feel and the ability to drive around without seeming warped and demented, get a 993TT. If you want kids to hide, little old ladies to frown at the sound of your exhaust and your wife to constantly inquire as to why you smell like gas, buy a 930. If you want something roughly in the middle, get a 964 turbo.

-dc

 

This made me laugh...HARD!!! The gas smell is so true!

 

I thought the gas smell was indicative of some larger issue with my car at first. DC did it go away with the EFI conversion?

 

Oh and Yasin it is spelled SCRABBLE.

 

/\ LOL

 

Gas smell??? So I am NOT alone!!!

The sad thing is I don't even realize the smell anymore....

 

I LIKE the gas smell, adds one more seeming element of danger to driving the car hard.