sand_man

Sorry to have opened a canister of worms. It just seemed to me that the bearing webs were sort of a scary place for the sealant. As m42racer indicated, it seems possible to interfere with the bearing tolerances as well as the squirter (kinky) issue! In Wayne's book, I'm pretty sure the engine he's using for the pictorial is an older 911 engine. I think I'll forgoe the use of sealant in this area of the engine. What did the factory actually due for a 1987 Turbo engine? As for the through bolts, Wayne also instructs the use of Black Permatex Sealant in conjunction with the o-rings.

I'm far from these steps...hell I haven't even ordered my goodies from Stephen yet. I'm just trying to get the facts.

PorschePhD

Until the newer style cases and that wasn't really until the 993 they used 574. The later style uses nothing, but seals the webs with o'riings instead. NEVER USE PERMATEX!!NEVER NEVER!

sand_man

Sorry for not being more clear, but what I mean to ask, is in 1987 did Porsche use the 574 sealant on the bearing web surfaces...not just the case perimeter?

Your comments on the Permatex were funny! HAHAHA! When I get ready, I'll be questioning most of the techniques suggested by Wayne's book. Which, by the way, is a pretty guide to gain an overview of what's involved. I don't really want to hate on his book. As for where he suggests to put the Permatex Black sealant, it's on the through-bolt case sealing washers...sort of a lst attempt at keeping oil from leaking from the case nuts.

Tom F

The way I feel about putting sealant on the bearing supports is that it's no fun changing splash valves. So, I'm leaving the sealant off the bearing supports.

However, I think that this motor got the sealant on the bearing supports when it was originally assembled at Porsche. This is a '77 930. The reason I say this is that the engine has only been apart once (I have all the service records, and I've spoken with both prior owners), and the later rebuild was with 574. The stuff that I found in the splash valve (and EVERYWHERE) was dark stuff. Truth to tell, it looks like Permatex, but nothing I could find would dissolve it. (I tried methylene chloride, acetone, ethanol.) I also notice the same stuff oozing out of the side cover of my transmission.

Does anyone know what the Porsche factory used for case sealant in 1977?

m42racer

Well done, leave it off. Just because Porsche put it there in the first place doesn't make it right. There is alot they seem to do against common convention.

This could be a case of Monkey see, Monkey do.

Could someone tell me why it is so important to use what Porsche uses or did. Are these engines so different to any other engine when it comes to using a sealant. I don't see other engines having issues with leaks any more than Porsche does. It comes down to the right use of the correct type of sealant, and there are many correct types.

PorschePhD

Originally they used aviation Permatex. If you are not familiar with it, it is nasty. It is very gooey and would stay some what soft until the heat and time really got to it. More than likely that is what you are seeing. It is like gorilla snot!

Simon, I am not sure why every post you put up always seems to have a know it all disgruntle attitude? These people are simply asking for some guidance and advice. Why use the Porsche books? Somewhat of a silly question. Most of these guys have never opened up a Porsche motor and this is a much better guide then most other books out there. Would you rather them use books that suggest permatex or loctite on rod bolts? The resources for help on these motors are slim and few of them have pals like you are with Neil. So they rely on us and proper sources. No, Porsche hasn’t done everything right, but with those and some guidance they can build a motor. They show all the proper measurements and addendums. So as far as a source goes if you can’t use a factory set of books as a guide what do you use? Advice from unknown sources and from people that would lead you to believe that they build motors and they don’t? There are plenty of those on the boards. Lighten up a bit.

m42racer

Not at all. but the point is well made and taken. I'm here for your enjoyment only.

I suppose I look at things from a different aspect. I am not a professional, but try to come from the logical direction. I only add to posts that I either have understanding of, or have had information given to me.

Many times I read your posts, and although often I disagree, I do also add to them with further information which I feel is left out.

sand_man

m42racer, my question about what the factory did/does was not necessarily so that I could duplicate it just for the sake of doing it the way the P-factory did...I simply wanted to know if the application of case sealer to the bearing supports was some sort of insider secret "engine builder" trick. I've opened a few 911 engines and I've seen the case sealer there before...I've also seen a few that had it missing! Everyone has there own mojo for building these things. I want it to be RIGHT! There are some VERY capable advisors on this board. One of which is a SITE SPONSOR (hint...hint) who could just as easily take his precious time that he spends answering some of the BS, silly, neophyte questions that get asked here daily and put it to better use serving his own business interests. Instead he's here walking the likes of me through a project that he could be charging me several thousand $$$$ to do. It's all good...

m42racer

Sand man,

I understand your point. Mine was to add that if the Main Line bore is measured without Glue, and then glue added, the size must change. This surely cannot be very good practice. This point was never mentioned, and I felt it should be added. I'm glad you have got good information.

In good taste, I just wish some of these sponsors would call them "engines" and not "motors".

PorschePhD

Now that I can do. That is funny stuff. I thought you didn't have a sense of humor Simon. It is the little things I try to teach my boys.

I don’t claim to do it right every day 365 days a year. In fact I have made many mistakes. I learn from them, correct them and share those experiences. If I choose to take the typical I know it all attitude then I have failed and should go back to what it was I did before this. But this is a love, not a need. I wake up and want to go into work so I can build those engines . It is the best job in the world. Day in and day out I get to make things that are pretty darn good even better. Grouped with my wife and boys in the shop and the friends I have chosen to have as employees. I am living the life. Still after 8 years I feel this way.

I have 14 930s in the shop from truly all over. Canada to CA, FL and TX, PA, AZ, WA even one that came in last night from Baton Rouge. That is just the 930s. So when I suggest something it normally has to do with all the time I spend with these cars. Like most I had to start somewhere. The manuals were the best place to start. From there I learned on my own. I try to help with that but often offer a road map that is a good seed and common sense. I don’t expect you to always agree, and honestly it is not my goal to have agreement all the time. In the long run you know very little about me. When you had questions about the fuel system I did not make snide comments nor was unkind nor unhelpful. I continued to try to help knowing that given the chance you would find fault in my post. That is ok too, if you learned anything from what I might have posted despite our differences then I am pleased. Otherwise I could be watching TV, waxing the car, or doing the hundred other things that “normal” people do instead of trying to help.

Not every other engine builder out there is the enemy. Don’t let the fancy ads fool you. In fact you should find your way to KC and see what we are about. Fri is hobby day. That means about 4:30 friends, customers and the likes show up for a coke or beer. Almost like clock work. You should find time to jet in and enjoy some of that time with us. You would see what it is like to hang around guys that have GREAT passion for what they do and being content with life. Nothing to prove here. This is what I mean by being enlightened. Be thankful you have the means to own one of these cars and simply enjoy them and the people that own them.