...as in all of the maintenance "records" for my car would be just receipts of the parts I bought and a log book of what I did and when I did it. There would be NO dealer or shop service stamps in the service booklet or many shop invoices at all because I do it all at home by myself. This question is meant for ALL generation of Porsche cars but I figured this would be the best place to ask.

I'm not the original owner of my current 964. When I used to have a beater SC way back only for a short while, I wasn't the original owner either. However, all of the cars I've owned, porsche and other makes, I've done my best to wrench on them by myself.

It seems as though with a car like a 911, that a stack of maintenance records is at the top of the priority PPI list when someone is looking at buying a car. I understand that there should be sufficient history but lets say someone found the "perfect" 911 but the only thing "wrong" with it is that the previous owner was all DIY. Sure to some a car is more attractive if it comes with an up-to-date factory service booklet with all the maintenance service stamps. For me I could care less, but then I guess it would come down to how well I trust the DIY abilities of the previous owner. I trust myself...but I don't expect the next guy to. I guess it's more important if you buy a concours car or a rare and well maintained example. HOWEVER, if I ever were to acquire such a special concours collector car (probably won't happen), will I be expected/forced to have it professionally serviced to maintain its value and appeal? If it were up to me, any records starting under my ownership and going forward will all say DIY lol ...and will this negatively affect how people view the car somehow?

I'm asking this question here in hopes of getting some interesting discussion since a lot of you are very knowledgeable DIY people. Cheers!

 

I've owned some DIY maintained cars that were fantastic and some not so much, all comes down to owner. You are buying the owner as much as the car.
Phil

 

Excellent subject.

As one who has seen a lot of 911's over the past 42+ years, I can say that "it depends". I think this applies to any 911 and certainly collector models.

Each & every car must be judged on its own merit since maintenance regimens vary widely.

I've seen the results of sloppy work by shops as well as individuals and such things are easy to spot. Using sub-standard parts whether by a professional or DIY'er certainly has a negative affect on the value of a car. Having an in-depth knowledge of what parts are good and whats junk is a big factor here and an integral part of why you pay a professional.

I've seen individuals document each & every detailed operation they do with records and receipts to match. These people maintain their cars better than a dealer and are meticulous about everything they do. I've also seen plenty of people who use the cheapest stuff they can find, and usually defer big-ticket expenses to the next owner.

I've seen shops (rarely dealers) fail to record everything they do as well as claim things they didn't!

When it comes to big ticket items such as engines and transmissions, the value depends on WHO did the work as well as having VERY detailed records. A highly skilled DIY'er might do a a better job than many of the Motor Meister engines that I've (unfortunately) seen. I've also witnessed the sad but well-meaning result of shade-tree mechanics who utterly ruined some expensive parts and components. Someday, I'll tell you all about a 2.7 engine that was sealed up with aluminum foil since the owner/builder didn't want to pay for a good gasket set,.......tip of the iceberg.

Generally speaking,......a qualified and skilled professional performs at a different level than a hobbyist as thats what they do for living every day. The level of detailed knowledge from such experience pays dividends in knowing what to do as well as what NOT to do.

Wide generalizations aren't always accurate here so hard conclusions should not be made; judge & assess each car on its own. This is why a professional PPI is SOOO important when considering a purchase.

In short, its all about Human Factors.

 

Yeah... what he ^ said. Could have not said it better even if I tried

 

Yep, what Steve said.

 

I wouldn't be afraid of an owner-maintained car, but I would absolutely insist on detailed records being kept for the purchases and a detailed maintenance log showing the mileage and date of everything done to the car. This is what I do for my car, and I am very meticulous. If I were looking at a car whose owner did all or most of the maintenance work, I'd want to see that his garage is well set up for it and that he owns quality tools (and lots of them!), and that the tools are clean and organized. In other words, I would need to be convinced that he knows what he's doing. You can tell a lot about how qualified an owner is by how he keeps his garage and other cars as well as his record-keeping. And, of course, a PPI should be considered mandatory.

Oh, and what Steve said too!

 

I sold my sled last year and after the guy bought it he told me he did so after seeing how organized my garage was.

 

IMHO, the car has to speak for itself... we're talking about cars that are 30-40 years old... repair records from 1988 really are not that relevant.

If you meet a beautiful 50 year-old woman that you like... maybe less detail about the past is more.

Unless you find a unicorn, one owner car, I'd just hang my hat on a thorough PPI. You are buying a car, not a pile of paper.

 

FormulaRX has seen my shed....and my toolbox.

There is no getting around the fact that I'm a DIY hack mechanic. I do things that shock and disturb the casual observer. Most folk can't believe what I've done to a perfectly good Porsche. I don't care. Most folks don't realize what a bomber I started with. They see a fantastic car and think it was always that way. Nope. According to Porsche it never once went in for service....NOT ONCE. It still had it's factory installed spark plugs.

Turbo brakes that are plumbed from the top. So What?! I know what I need to do to plumb them the right way and someday I'll get to it. RSR door cards in a cab. Boo Freakin' Woo!! But guess what.....every single nut, bolt, and bit under my car has or soon will have fresh zinc. My engine compartment looks better than 90% of the cars I've ever seen. Cost me all of $80 for all the zinc on my engine. Suck on that!!!! I don't care if my A/C is missing....as it was crap anyway.

Have I destroyed the value of my car? Apparently not. Been offered twice what I paid for it.

Let this soak in:

 

I look for signs of owner OCD when looking at used cars, the more meticulous the owner the better. A guy like that might do some work himself, but is paranoid enough that he'll take the car to a professional if he's not 100% confident in his ability for a particular repair. He'll still be fussy about someone else's work though, so the car ought to be well maintained.

 

Buy the car... not the owner.

I bought my first 911 from a Neurosurgeon in my neighborhood. He was the original owner, and the car was totally documented. His house was immaculate, and he had a $10K custom sound system.

In 1995... a cool sound system was a big deal. He was a 3-time Porsche owner.

I bought the car cash, and unfortunately found out that he let his coke addict son drive the car, and he crashed it and the chassis was twisted.

Get a PPI.

 

Speaking as a genuine senior citizen with some experiences, I can tell you that doing a PPI on a person is FAR FAR more challenging.

 

i'm in with steve w., i've purchased several P-cars over the years and when i get the Service Record booklet i notice not all sections are stamped... and where is it said that an authorized dealer in 2016 or a few years back has expert mechanics on the air cooled machines? the "bottom" line is receipts for parts/service done and/or descriptions of service done by the DIY guy... and of the course the all important PPI performed by a knowledgeable trusted expert. i've purchased cars sight unseen (in person), just internet info, had the car looked over down where it was, bought it, shipped it up here and then did another PPI (now known as a post-purchase inspection) by a mechanic i know and trust and i attend the inspection with him. enough stories for another day.

 

This is me. Do lots of my own work, very detailed, know my limitations and pay the pros to do things right that I know I'll struggle with.

Thing is, 2 of my 3 current 911s were bought with minimal/no records. First, you have to buy the seller. In both cases neither had the cars very long. But, a quick look at the car, a detailed PPI, and a discussion with the owner and the story can be pretty easy see. its subtle details.

So to answer the OP, for me, nope, I buy the seller and the story the car is telling me. Not the records, those just make the job a little easier.

 

This is a interesting topic. Phil put it well with saying you are buying the car and the owner.

If i am buying a car from someone off a forum i usually go back through all the old threads they posted to get a feel for how the car was treated and any issues that popped up. A big factor for me also is how long has the person owned the car. Longer the better i think.

When i bought my '88 i heavily researched the shop that performed the engine rebuild. Also in that searching i found one of the PO's of the car whom owned the car for a very long period, i guess you can say i liked what i saw.

Like 911 Rod, the guy that bought my E36 M3 said he bought it with confidence after seeing my garage, the condition of my other cars and also looking back at my old posts on Pelican. I also keep every invoice and use a car maintenance tracking program to log all the work done. I consider myself very mechanically inclined but like Steve mentioned its important to know when your in over your head and when to take it to a pro. Ive rebuilt two engines before, but i know if it came to it i would bring the 911 to a pro. I am super **** and detail oriented though so i personally think someone would be lucky to buy a car from someone like me . Or atleast i havent seen any 'i hate my PO' posts from people that bought cars from me...