Beware: 101 Projects for you 911
09-11-2003, 10:34 AM
#31
I write technical documentation for a living. I can sympathize with Wayne about editors, page count, media delivery limitations, legal CYA, and the rest of it.
Sprocket, I do agree that it is a pain to deal with a crusted car whose nuts bolts and whatnot give you fits, but that is not Wayne's fault. You must also consider the legal aspects of telling someone to bend a hard brake line to get to a bolt -- did it double-fold on itself? What happens when the user goes for that first ride and the car's rear brake(s) fail to work?
I learned most of the hard stuff with my first Briggs and Stratton, which amazingly I brought to life at the age of 9. I learned pretty early that you double the expected amount of time to do something on a car, motorcycle, or bicycle. Just take your time and put many, many notes in the book/manual you are working with (your own "errata").
By the way, nice car!!
John
Sprocket, I do agree that it is a pain to deal with a crusted car whose nuts bolts and whatnot give you fits, but that is not Wayne's fault. You must also consider the legal aspects of telling someone to bend a hard brake line to get to a bolt -- did it double-fold on itself? What happens when the user goes for that first ride and the car's rear brake(s) fail to work?
I learned most of the hard stuff with my first Briggs and Stratton, which amazingly I brought to life at the age of 9. I learned pretty early that you double the expected amount of time to do something on a car, motorcycle, or bicycle. Just take your time and put many, many notes in the book/manual you are working with (your own "errata").
By the way, nice car!!
John
09-11-2003, 01:53 PM
#32
Instructor
Thread Starter
Wayne,
Let us try to stick the point here and not get off the subject with all these other issues that have come up in the last 30 posts. The question I have is very plain and simple. Let's walk through it:
CALIPER:
In your book on Page 162 you state : "You will need to remove the rear caliper and brake disk in order to access the bolts that hold on the radius arm"
In your reply to me on this site you state: "On the rear trailing arm, the hard line to the brake caliper transverses across the rear radius arm. I have found that it is easier to access the radius arm bolts and remove the entire assembly if the caliper and rear disc are removed."
Please tell me how it is easier to remove the rear brake caliper and disk to do this procedure. This is an entire project that risks bending or breaking the rear brake line. Not what I would consider easy or safe.
What is accurate is that the spring plate can come off the rear trailing arm with ease by simply pulling up on the trailing arm a touch and taking the plate down and out off the rear trailing arm. On my car the hard brake line was not even above the end of the spring plate and it could be moved up and off the trailing arm anyway. As I did this on the other side of the car, when I found out that it was not required to remove the rear caliper. I just don't see how it makes this project "easier" to remove the caliper.
RIDE HEIGHT BOLTS:
You state that: "You remove the rear ride height adjustment bolts in order to reduce the spring tension on the radius arm"
Ok, now from your instructions on page 163 of your book we have placed the rear trailing at a point where there is not any tension on the spring plate. "It's important to relieve any tension on the radius arm before you disconnect the bolts that attach it to the trailing arm." With the suspension all the way down and the rear shock pulled off the trailing arm this is pretty easy to do.
So where does this tension come from that is "reduce" by taking out the ride height bolts. We have taken all the tension out of the suspension by now! It just looks like extra work to me, if in doubt see project 55.
For all of you other folks who have the book, please open it up and read through this project prior to making a quick remark that may not be accurate.
Wayne, I would hope that you would consider adding this to your updates site. It might save some folks the frustration that I went through while working through this project. Though i'm thinking that you are going to stick to your story on this issue.
I'm sorry that i can't respond to all the other posts here. Some are valid and I agree with, others are way off base with blind assumptions. Like I said the book has lots of great ideas, it's the instructions that I'm questioning.
Mat
PS...
Yes, my real name. Not an anonymous screen name, that some people would hide behind. If I’m not able to say what I feel on this board, I will not be posting here again. You have to question what you don't agree with, not worry about loosing points in the popularity game. Some of you might remember an email based forum from 10 years ago. I was there when I bought my first Porsche, what about you?
Let us try to stick the point here and not get off the subject with all these other issues that have come up in the last 30 posts. The question I have is very plain and simple. Let's walk through it:
CALIPER:
In your book on Page 162 you state : "You will need to remove the rear caliper and brake disk in order to access the bolts that hold on the radius arm"
In your reply to me on this site you state: "On the rear trailing arm, the hard line to the brake caliper transverses across the rear radius arm. I have found that it is easier to access the radius arm bolts and remove the entire assembly if the caliper and rear disc are removed."
Please tell me how it is easier to remove the rear brake caliper and disk to do this procedure. This is an entire project that risks bending or breaking the rear brake line. Not what I would consider easy or safe.
What is accurate is that the spring plate can come off the rear trailing arm with ease by simply pulling up on the trailing arm a touch and taking the plate down and out off the rear trailing arm. On my car the hard brake line was not even above the end of the spring plate and it could be moved up and off the trailing arm anyway. As I did this on the other side of the car, when I found out that it was not required to remove the rear caliper. I just don't see how it makes this project "easier" to remove the caliper.
RIDE HEIGHT BOLTS:
You state that: "You remove the rear ride height adjustment bolts in order to reduce the spring tension on the radius arm"
Ok, now from your instructions on page 163 of your book we have placed the rear trailing at a point where there is not any tension on the spring plate. "It's important to relieve any tension on the radius arm before you disconnect the bolts that attach it to the trailing arm." With the suspension all the way down and the rear shock pulled off the trailing arm this is pretty easy to do.
So where does this tension come from that is "reduce" by taking out the ride height bolts. We have taken all the tension out of the suspension by now! It just looks like extra work to me, if in doubt see project 55.
For all of you other folks who have the book, please open it up and read through this project prior to making a quick remark that may not be accurate.
Wayne, I would hope that you would consider adding this to your updates site. It might save some folks the frustration that I went through while working through this project. Though i'm thinking that you are going to stick to your story on this issue.
I'm sorry that i can't respond to all the other posts here. Some are valid and I agree with, others are way off base with blind assumptions. Like I said the book has lots of great ideas, it's the instructions that I'm questioning.
Mat
PS...
Yes, my real name. Not an anonymous screen name, that some people would hide behind. If I’m not able to say what I feel on this board, I will not be posting here again. You have to question what you don't agree with, not worry about loosing points in the popularity game. Some of you might remember an email based forum from 10 years ago. I was there when I bought my first Porsche, what about you?
Last edited by sprocket3; 09-11-2003 at 03:05 PM.
09-11-2003, 02:51 PM
#34
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I was cracking up about the low post count comments since the person implying low counts could only mean no clue had a pretty low count himself ..... (I think I got you all beat in the low count game 
)
)
09-11-2003, 03:08 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
Mat: It's one thing to take issue with the way Wayne suggests your perform a certain task as part of one of the 101 projects. It's quite another to take cheap shots at Wayne and make sarcastic comments about the book as a whole. Wayne's book is written for a broad spectrum of 911s, and it is a GREAT resource. Also, he and his business (Pelican Parts) sponsor another wonderful bulletin board where people can trade information and ideas. In fact, I suspect if you had just posted questions about your project on the Pelican BBS, without attacking Wayne or his book, you would have gotten at least a dozen helpful suggestions. I agree with the others...take Wayne up on his offer of a refund.
09-11-2003, 03:21 PM
#37
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i have waynes book, the bently and hyanes manuels and they are all very useful. i think in fact that they work best with all being utilized together. each one has its strong and weak points, the trick is to find out what will work for you.
all of these reasorces will be looked over prior to the start of any project to either find my approcah to the project or to determine if its better left to someone else. additionally it never hurts to study up and go talk to your wrench for some of his suggestions.
all of these reasorces will be looked over prior to the start of any project to either find my approcah to the project or to determine if its better left to someone else. additionally it never hurts to study up and go talk to your wrench for some of his suggestions.
09-11-2003, 05:23 PM
#39
Burning Brakes
Mat: I have read the other posts...very carefully in fact. I think your comments about the book and Wayne are way off-base. Nothing that I said was a cheap shot at all, and I stand by my comments. Get the refund from Wayne, and use the Bentley books.
09-11-2003, 06:17 PM
#40
Drifting
How many places can you go and get feedback straight from the Author?
What more do you want than a refund of the purchase price? Wayne's book gave me a little more confidence to tackle a MAJOR brake rebuild on my 1987 Cabriolet. Would I have tried it before his book? No way. Was it 100% of what I needed to get the job done? No it wasn't that either - but I sure didn't expect that. The book combined with this forum, as well as Pelican saw me through. Here's a before and after picture...
What I did do was probably save out $700 for doing the job myself - and I have much more confidence to try other projects too.
I don't blame Wayne for defending his book - I would too if this was written about something I put many hours into:
Thanks Wayne for 101projects. 
What more do you want than a refund of the purchase price? Wayne's book gave me a little more confidence to tackle a MAJOR brake rebuild on my 1987 Cabriolet. Would I have tried it before his book? No way. Was it 100% of what I needed to get the job done? No it wasn't that either - but I sure didn't expect that. The book combined with this forum, as well as Pelican saw me through. Here's a before and after picture...
What I did do was probably save out $700 for doing the job myself - and I have much more confidence to try other projects too.
I don't blame Wayne for defending his book - I would too if this was written about something I put many hours into:
So i have to say that if this author had ever gotten under a car in his garage at home, with a modest supply of tools he would have thought more about the clear insturctions to remore this extra stuff. I don't know maybe he has never actually done this "project", but it takes all the confidence I have out of what is written in the rest of the book. I put a very high value on my time, and wish that he had taken more time to make sure that what was printed is 100% accurate, not just words on paper to fill the pages.
09-11-2003, 06:59 PM
#41
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The book may be a great piece but I still hear what Mat is saying (go for the refund and don't look back dude)....... some of you just sound like you'd love to polish Wayne's apple w/o even feeling Mat’s pain, that seems on the same order of lameness or more (shows no depth)............ that being said, I'll be purchasing the book at my earliest convenience since it sounds like a good reference.
Threads like this are great for showing people's ability to see the big picture as well as their true colors. I feel both party's pain, lessons learned (hopefully), that's life, get on with it …….
Threads like this are great for showing people's ability to see the big picture as well as their true colors. I feel both party's pain, lessons learned (hopefully), that's life, get on with it …….
09-11-2003, 08:19 PM
#42
Hello All,
First post ever:
I Just want to jump in here for a second, Wayne's 101 projects book is great : Thanks Wayne. The first thing I did after letting my older brother drive my new car (an '83 SC) was show him Wayne's book. His reaction was, "I wish they had a book like that for the car I own." The only thing you have to worry about with this book is that is addictive (like this site). In fact this site (and John's 964 site) and Wayne's book make it easier for people to approach these cars. Although, this might be a good opportunity for everyone to help Wayne with future editions of the book. The only problems I found with the book they are quite tiny. For instance I just changed the oxygen sensor and nowhere on that page is there even one sentence about re-setting the light. Not a big deal, but odd. And it could've been the editors fault and not the writer. The Pop-Off valve says epoxy but what heat rating should it have? A quick search on renn list supplied the answer: Bill say's JB weld will work , Thanks Bill! (Bill has been very helpful). Pop-off is now in place. Lastly, on the page about checking the transmission fluid, where the heck is that 17mm nut? anyway thanks Wayne and thanks all you RENN listers! Jt
First post ever:
I Just want to jump in here for a second, Wayne's 101 projects book is great : Thanks Wayne. The first thing I did after letting my older brother drive my new car (an '83 SC) was show him Wayne's book. His reaction was, "I wish they had a book like that for the car I own." The only thing you have to worry about with this book is that is addictive (like this site). In fact this site (and John's 964 site) and Wayne's book make it easier for people to approach these cars. Although, this might be a good opportunity for everyone to help Wayne with future editions of the book. The only problems I found with the book they are quite tiny. For instance I just changed the oxygen sensor and nowhere on that page is there even one sentence about re-setting the light. Not a big deal, but odd. And it could've been the editors fault and not the writer. The Pop-Off valve says epoxy but what heat rating should it have? A quick search on renn list supplied the answer: Bill say's JB weld will work , Thanks Bill! (Bill has been very helpful). Pop-off is now in place. Lastly, on the page about checking the transmission fluid, where the heck is that 17mm nut? anyway thanks Wayne and thanks all you RENN listers! Jt
09-11-2003, 11:52 PM
#43
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Wayne, Thanks for your two great books, I have saved much time and money from reading before I dove into the projects I have done thus far on my '88 coupe. My library of porsche related texts is over thirty now, and yours are a valuable resource. When you make it to Maui let me know and I'll give you the insider tour. Mahalo Nui Loa Mark
09-11-2003, 11:56 PM
#44
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Wayne, thanks for writing this book! I bought a copy last year, even though it doesn't have much to do with the 993. Always good to have reference material around the house, errrrr garage.
However, I do agree with JW about your comment about Rennlist being a "nasty and unfriendly place". Not true!
These type of threads appear on other Porsche forums as well.....
However, I do agree with JW about your comment about Rennlist being a "nasty and unfriendly place". Not true!
These type of threads appear on other Porsche forums as well.....
09-12-2003, 12:09 AM
#45
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Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
Hmm, Rennlist seems like it's rapidly becoming a nasty and unfriendly place. Interestingly enough the people slinging the nasty comments only have a small collection of posts to their name...
Anyways, I'm tired of this. I'm going back to my forums http://forums.pelicanparts.com
-Wayne
Hmm, Rennlist seems like it's rapidly becoming a nasty and unfriendly place. Interestingly enough the people slinging the nasty comments only have a small collection of posts to their name...
Anyways, I'm tired of this. I'm going back to my forums http://forums.pelicanparts.com
-Wayne
That comment is uncalled for and just plain wrong.
In a forum with this may users there will always be some people you rather not deal with. I am sure you see this on YOUR forums as well.
I own your book and am a pelican customer but your "Anyways, I'm tired of this. I'm going back to my forums"
Sounds like, "I am taking my toys and going home! "
