Yard Dog

I am a first time poster, but I have been reading Rennlist for some time. I am also a new owner of a '15 Cayman GTS which I love, but it's a little tight for my 6'2" frame so I have been looking at trading up to a 911. Well, maybe the expression ought to be trading over to a 911 because I have driven my fair share of recent vintage Carreras and Carrera Ss and I have not been impressed. In fact I went to test drive a used 911 S and was about to leave the dealership when the salesman offered a test drive in a Cayman. The rest is history. The new 911s are big cars and do not have the knife edged response that the Cayman has, but again the Cayman is a little small for me and a little underpowered.

One unintended consequence of becoming a Porsche owner is that I quickly became immersed in Porsche history and learned a lot about the different characteristics of older Porsches which lead me to acquire and read a wallet draining array of Porsche books not to mention talking the ears off of anyone interested in discussing Porsches. It's a bit of a sickness. I have also learned a lot from reading Rennlist. You guys are pretty amazing.

From that research I almost purchased a low mileage '95 993, but prices of 993s, as you all know, have skyrocketed the last few years and I figured that the amount I would have in both cars would buy a new 911 GTS with change left over. I am currently waiting for my dealer to take delivery of a manual 911 GTS so I can make a decision. I have no interest in the PDK, the turbo or the GT3.

So while waiting, I came across accounts of the Carrera RS 2.7 and how some think it is the best Porsche ever made. Their recent sales prices certainly reflect that. I saw one recently that sold for $1.5 M. I'm not spending that kind of money, but then I came across a low mileage '93 RS America that looks like a nice car and though expensive, was more within reach than the RS 2.7.

So after all that, my question. What do you think is a reasonable price for this car?

Thanks in advance, and thanks for the insight you all have already given me.

rusnak

If you want to preen and "look good" while puttering around, then there are 911s for that. The 996 comes to mind. Any 993 or even better, a 993 TT is a little bit more toward the old Porsche philosophy of minimalism. But to me, the ultimate Porsche would be more like a 914-6 GT or a 906 or 904. 959 or Carrera RS? Not as much. You can get almost the same car as an RS if you buy a '74 Carrera and slap a ducktail on it. Put a bit more racy motor in it, and you're good to go with a really fun 911. Another great car would be to start with a 914-4 and put a 3.2 motor in it. Or a 911 with a 993 motor in it.

theiceman

they will know more on 964 forum

Drisump

The prices of 993's haven't hit the heights of an RSA though, unless you're talking the turbo or collector grade S. Like Rusnak says, it sounds like you'd be happiest in a modified car....Singer maybe?

Yard Dog

I didn't explain myself very well. The RS would be a car I would have in addition to a DD whether a Cayman or a 911, not something to preen in while puttering around. I should simply have asked for the board's opinion on a price for the car.

KaiB

The RSA is NOT a 964RS...please don't be confused by the hype.

Prices for good RSA are in a bubble at the moment, with low mileage original cars going for six figures.

If you want one, by all means get one, but please don't think this is an exceptional car. While cool, they are really nothing more than a 964C2 with a manual rack.

rusnak

Absolutely.

race911

If you think a Cayman GTS is underpowered (where are you driving, exactly?), then anything without forced induction from the air cooled era is going to be a major, major, major disappointment.

lcrain

I don't think you will be all that impressed with an RSA. Don't get me wrong, they are fantastic. But the prices are astronomical, and it offers minimal advantages over a regular 964. It really depends what you are after though. I personally would find more enjoyment out of a nice 3.2 that has been massaged for a fraction of the cost.

But you asked for an opinion on price. It is a sellers market. See the 215k mile example in the classifieds asking $80k. Lower mile examples are asking much more. Not worth it unless your heart is set.

Drisump

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. The most powerful common air-cooled (non-forced induction) was the 993 that had somewhere around 285 hp. They can be lightened and massaged to provide a very entertaining car but if straight line performance is what you're after, it would be hard to create an air-cooled car as capable as the new "off the rack" offerings. Cheers

JCP911S

Joe Montana is arguably the best QB of all times... so why don't the Cleveland Browns sign him?

In their day, air-cooled 911s were the leading performance cars, but they are now decades old.

Modern cars are more capable in virtually every respect. Unfortunately, there are two emerging schools. Collectors who are are locking them in anaerobic chambers and folks who want to turn them into 500HP Franken-Porsches.

These are collector cars... preserve them, drive them and just appreciate them for what they are.... not that hard.

Drisump

"These are collector cars... preserve them, drive them and just appreciate them for what they are.... not that hard."
I also appreciate these cars, but my appreciation comes from the fact that I haven't found a car of any age that does what these cars can do (for me). Sure there are many faster, better cornering, more comfortable and more refined cars out there. But try to find one that does all those things better and is as engaging to drive.(especially at ...more or less, legal road speeds). New cars, even sports cars, are becoming much too "by wire", a driver requests an action and the bank of computers determines the best and safest way to execute the potentially "ham fisted " request. Would you bother to ski if all new skis took control and made anyone who used them look like an olympic champion? I have had the opportunity to drive a number of water pumping 911's, and I can really appreciate the effortless, refined qualities of them but as an amusing departure from the ordinary, give me air cooled! If the truth be known I often drive my two air cooled cars with a very spirited hand (and foot) LOL. With the current expansion of market values, I realize that I may become an endangered species (those with air-cooled 911's that drive them in the manner they were bred to do).
The reason I bought my 85 seven years ago was as a fun drivers car and for me, that hasn't changed.....but I'm not a collector. Just a guy still having fun in his older 911.

rusnak

This has turned into such a great thread. Much wisdom here.

There was a description in an old book that I read, maybe it was Paul Frere who described the 934 like a sharpened wooden pencil? That comes to mind when thinking about the newer water/electric cars versus the older aircooled cars with lighter, more mechanical and direct connection to the driver.

JCP911S

I have a '70 911S that was my old track car, and having driven it at speed on the track (and there and back BTW) for close to a decade, can attest to its legendary performance as few current owners can... and given the prices being paid for these cars, the modifications I made in the course of this journey are one of my greatest automotive regrets.

I also have an '84 3.2 that I used as a DD for over a decade... it is dead stock, and I have also tracked that car.

I have a '78 SC full prep racer that I have raced for over a decade, and can attest to its performance.

None of these cars can compete with current cars in any objective measurement of performance, but also give you a hands-on appreciation of history... like time machines.

This is why I believe they should be preserved, as stock, or with appropriate, period-correct mods, driven regularly and appreciated simply for what they are, not compared to something else.

Now ...I have to log-off to change my Depends.

stuttgart1

Couldn't agree more with the points on new cars. There are NONE of the newer cars that will put a smIle on my face, they could be faster and handle better but I care less.