Crazy markup / I hate flippers
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Instructor
Joined: Feb 2014
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From: Tampa, FL
Crazy markup / I hate flippers
True Speed in Costa Mesa bought this 86 on ebay for $20,300 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Black-P...034?rmvSB=true
and are now asking $37,900 http://www.truspeedmotorcars.com/web...CLJZhj8lGprOsw
They have an 82 they got for $25k and are now asking $37k. Pretty much turned into dicks when I asked them about that... I'll let them have a profit (yes, you beat me to it) but not $12,000 profit for an 82 with 100k+ miles on it...
Please stop selling to flippers!!!!
and are now asking $37,900 http://www.truspeedmotorcars.com/web...CLJZhj8lGprOsw
They have an 82 they got for $25k and are now asking $37k. Pretty much turned into dicks when I asked them about that... I'll let them have a profit (yes, you beat me to it) but not $12,000 profit for an 82 with 100k+ miles on it...
Please stop selling to flippers!!!!
Last edited by KDRGibby; Feb 17, 2015 at 07:43 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 118
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From: Tampa, FL
Yes, they can ask whatever they want. Probably shouldn't be jerks about it if someone finds it out (I mean come on, you bought it on Ebay
laugh it off and say you've got some wiggle room in the price. You can say no if you don't like my offer). Anyway...
They are marketing them oversees and if the exchange rates are just right $38k may be cheap (I did find a True Speed ad for that car in Russian).
I've seen some dealer/flipper cars have been for sale for as long as 4-5 months at high prices. They do eventually sell but at what price I don't know. Nothing Ive seen suggests a high-mileage 3.2 w/915 would sell in the high $30s. Ive never, ever seen a high mileage 82 for mid-high $30s, but theyve got one. True Speed does do a good job with the photos and photoshop maybe that graphic artist justifies the extra price? Hope the buyer gets to keep a few of the photos
They are marketing them oversees and if the exchange rates are just right $38k may be cheap (I did find a True Speed ad for that car in Russian).
I've seen some dealer/flipper cars have been for sale for as long as 4-5 months at high prices. They do eventually sell but at what price I don't know. Nothing Ive seen suggests a high-mileage 3.2 w/915 would sell in the high $30s. Ive never, ever seen a high mileage 82 for mid-high $30s, but theyve got one. True Speed does do a good job with the photos and photoshop maybe that graphic artist justifies the extra price? Hope the buyer gets to keep a few of the photos
Racer
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 473
Likes: 1
- we have no idea if they've had to put in significant $ into the car before selling.
-the question that a buyer should look at is how it compares to other market offerings.
-like ordinary buyers, these companies must be having a very hard time to get their hands on good air-cooled cars and if they can't replace inventory, they will inflate a cars asking $, since they have to have something to sell.
-US cars have gotten much more expensive lately in foreign currency terms, so expect THAT market to react by reducing it's interest in US sold cars.
I understand that this market is one that is difficult to gauge valuations, but it seems the market value of normal 911's had done very little over a very long time and for some reason the public has just woken up to them. The good news is that many 911's that have languished in forgotten garages are now financially feasible to put back on the road. Good luck with your hunt.
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Market
Market is stupid now. I almost bought a 1996 993 with 32,000 miles from a private seller for $52,000 ask, which was very fair. The car was suppose to be 2 owner, car fax showed at least 5 owners and instead of 2 state registration it had 6 states, a couple were states where titles get redone. I said I would buy subject to PPI which I arranged thru his shop in Tenn. A dealer in Oregon said he would buy the car it as is so the owner sold it one day prior to the PPI and I was out. But for me too many red flags to buy this car without a PPI. Same car is listed now on the Oregon dealers site for over $68,000. This dealer also bought an 86 coupe for $32,000 and has it listed for $42,000.
Another 86 coupe that I thought was not that special just sold on bring your trailer site for $44,000.
I suppose you can't blame people for making a profit in a hot market, I am all for free enterprise. But doesn't mean it isn't a little frustrating for the enthusiast owners.
Another 86 coupe that I thought was not that special just sold on bring your trailer site for $44,000.
I suppose you can't blame people for making a profit in a hot market, I am all for free enterprise. But doesn't mean it isn't a little frustrating for the enthusiast owners.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2014
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From: Tampa, FL
bingo
When flippers jump in a hot market like this, it is a bad sign. $32,000 for an 86 is a fair price now. A year ago that was a high 20s car. 2 years ago mid 20s. The sudden dealer only massive jumps in price are not a good sign though I don't know if anyone is buying them at those prices or if these cars are going oversees.
I don't think these dealers really have a clue at this point. They know the market is hot, they see what other dealers are doing, but they have no idea what things are selling for. They are just taking a risk and hoping someone else really, really, really, really wants the car at any price.
I'm happy to work with dealers, they just need to keep it cool if I know how much wiggle room they have in that price (yes knowing they paid $25,000 for an 82 is important. That is the going rate for good one).
I don't think these dealers really have a clue at this point. They know the market is hot, they see what other dealers are doing, but they have no idea what things are selling for. They are just taking a risk and hoping someone else really, really, really, really wants the car at any price.
I'm happy to work with dealers, they just need to keep it cool if I know how much wiggle room they have in that price (yes knowing they paid $25,000 for an 82 is important. That is the going rate for good one).
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2014
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From: Tampa, FL
And yes the market is stupid. Dealers are pricing SCs and 3.2s at or higher than some 997s. There are a few 2005 and 2006s with 50-60k on them going for $32-39k and low-mileage 2005 911 S for $42k.
I'd get a 997, but I just love the sound of that air-cooled 3.0... omg! The 997 just can't replicate that.
I'd get a 997, but I just love the sound of that air-cooled 3.0... omg! The 997 just can't replicate that.
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This is how I see it: There is a high risk factor for flippers commending top dollar.
An individual selling a car for reasonable price is selling the car 'as is' most of the time with some small cosmetic and maybe mechanical repairs necessary. It is due to the small things and maybe even a higher mileage that the owner is willing to sell the car at a fair slightly-below-market price.
Then a dealer spots the car. He sees this 'fair price' as a good wholesale purchase price and buys the car. They might do a few little things before throwing the car back on the market. When the car does hit the market, they ask top dollar. The person shopping for a 911 will see this car and be ready to buy it but with top dollar pricing comes high expectations.
The dealer is going to have to meet these expectations before and maybe after the sale; even without a warrantly a buyer paying top dollar will most definetely go back if something unexpected pops up after the sale.
...So a dealer can try to sell these cars at high prices but with that comes risk. The car is also likely to sit on the lot for a while which is something these cars don't quite like from a mechanical standpoint.
An individual selling a car for reasonable price is selling the car 'as is' most of the time with some small cosmetic and maybe mechanical repairs necessary. It is due to the small things and maybe even a higher mileage that the owner is willing to sell the car at a fair slightly-below-market price.
Then a dealer spots the car. He sees this 'fair price' as a good wholesale purchase price and buys the car. They might do a few little things before throwing the car back on the market. When the car does hit the market, they ask top dollar. The person shopping for a 911 will see this car and be ready to buy it but with top dollar pricing comes high expectations.
The dealer is going to have to meet these expectations before and maybe after the sale; even without a warrantly a buyer paying top dollar will most definetely go back if something unexpected pops up after the sale.
...So a dealer can try to sell these cars at high prices but with that comes risk. The car is also likely to sit on the lot for a while which is something these cars don't quite like from a mechanical standpoint.
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From: Yorkville IL
Last Sunday, I saw a really nice 89 Carrera Anniversary Edition for sale in Chattanooga TN on Craigslist with 55k miles for $25K. I spoke to the seller and he indicated that someone was coming on Sunday to look at the car. He just wanted to sell it quickly to free up cash for another car project, so he said. I wanted to jump on a flight but the banks are closed on Sunday so i would have had to wait till Monday morning to get the funds from my bank. When I called on Monday AM he said the other buyer was making the electronic funds transfer within the hour so I missed the opportunity. I thought about finding and reaching out to a fellow Rennlister to assist but didnt really have enough time to put something like that together quickly.
I wonder how we, as an enthusiast community, could help each other move more quickly than the flippers to assist each other to buy the cars we want to drive and keep instead of allowing the flippers making a killing on us later.
I wonder how we, as an enthusiast community, could help each other move more quickly than the flippers to assist each other to buy the cars we want to drive and keep instead of allowing the flippers making a killing on us later.
Banned
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,387
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From: Holy City, South Carolina
I kinda enjoy the game to be honest. I hunt every day for deals on porsches. Most of the time I miss them bc I am at work or just not close enough to get there in time. I lost 2 65 911 asking 10k both times. I also just lost a 964 in good running condition for 7k but, was at work. To me it makes my purchase that much rewarding when I score a steal of a price. Bc there are people out there that have no idea what the market is and way under price them just to sell them fast. I'll do whatever I can to convince them to sell it to me but, that always doesn't work lol
uninformed gas bag
(contemplating on whether gas bag is one or two words)
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(contemplating on whether gas bag is one or two words)
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Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Melbourne Beach
If you are in the market as a buyer you can try to find the best perceived value now or wait and hope that this is a bubble and things will be more to your liking in the future. That's the choice you have to make. I thought about taking my race car back to the resemblence of a street car but thought who would want an old race car? Apparently many do. I sold that car for around 20k not a year ago. Things have gone a bit nutty over the last year.
Jason, my young friend, you did well.
Jason, my young friend, you did well.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,042
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From: Bozeman, MT
This is capitalism at work pure and simple- we all buy things all day long from someone that paid less for them than we do. I for one can't understand why folks get so upset about this- this has been going on for tens of thousands of years the internet just makes the process more transparent. All of us have equal access to the used Porsche market- you have to be a gun slinger to win when a car shows up under market price. Car dealers are in the business to make money - hopefully most of us work for businesses with the intention of making money.
Phil
Phil
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Joined: Dec 2014
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From: CT
After buying my 88 from a dealer, I stumbled upon the eBay listing where the dealer bought it from earlier that year. Initially I was annoyed because I paid almost $10k more than the dealer did. However, prior to my purchase the dealer provided recent receipts for $7k work of repairs/maintenance they paid for. New clutch, pads, rotors, engine seals etc.
Who wins here? Beats me but I'm happy and that's what counts to me. With so many resources online, the playing field is much more even than it used to be.
Who wins here? Beats me but I'm happy and that's what counts to me. With so many resources online, the playing field is much more even than it used to be.