Marine Blue

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to convey as much as I can to get some advice.

I was visiting a friend in Iowa last weekend and went with him to get his car out of storage. At the storage facility I see a 1969 911E Sportomatic Targa for sale. Price was within a range I could afford which I never thought possible.

So being a curious Porsche enthusiast I inquire about the car and learn the following:

- The car was imported into the USA from Germany about a year ago. Apparently the current owner got the car after a divorce and decided to bring it into the states. This being the case I would assume that any decent records are not available and history is unknown. With these old cars I'm not sure how that affects value if at all. The VIN Number sticker was located at the front passenger side of the frunk and not the usual drivers door. Not sure if that is normal for euro models?

- The speedo is still in KM and shows 16,XXX km on it which means it must have rolled past 99,999. The turn signals have been changed from red to amber to meet US requirements but the car has never been titled or driven in the US and still has a European Title. The car still has the red lenses in the frunk.

- We were able to get the car started and the engine idled nicely and RPM's climbed very freely. It did start leaking fuel at the front after running several minutes so we shut her down before any major issues occurred. Not sure if the transmission works but I do know the lockout worked since the car wouldn't turn over until it was in a certain gear or park. I'm not really familiar with how the Sportomatic works.

We left and I spent the rest of the day doing research on the old long hoods and learning as much as I could. I have always loved the look and I know I would appreciate the driving experience. I researched the problem areas and talked to some knowledgeable air cooled friends about the car. I was curious enough that the next day I decided to go back and really look at and inspect it. I noted the following:

Drivers side door/fender must have had some bodywork done and poorly. Door doesn't align at the bottom and is sticking out 1/4" Bondo marks are visible through the paint on the fender near the lights. The entire car had been repainted silver at some point. The paint was peeling in the door sill and the paint underneath was a slightly lighter shade of silver. The interior, frunk and engine bay were all black (not sure if that's normal?)

The undercarriage looks excellent. The undercoating was peeling off but only surface rust was present and not a single rust hole to be seen anywhere! Only surface rust under the battery and some surface rust in the drivers side footwell. Everything looked, felt and sounded solid. It didn't look like it had seen winters but it did look driven and commensurate of a old car. There are two small bubbles forming on the lower passenger fender but nothing around the rear windows, doors or other areas of the car. Overall the body was excellent considering age.

The interior was ok although the carpeting was loose and needed to be reattached. The drivers seat padding was completely shot and while the houndstooth cloth was ok the vinyl had a rip. Passenger seat and rears looked good. The door cards were missing the lower storage area and I didn't see any door pulls that would let me close the doors. The targa top exterior vinyl was ok but the interior cloth had come loose and was hanging down. It didn't smell musty or damp inside which was surprising. It was very dirty though and looked like it has sat for some time.

So I'm seriously thinking about buying the car and pulling the trigger this week. I never make spur of the moment purchases so this is definitely unusual but it seems like an opportunity to get something I have always coveted at a price I can afford.

I know my way around cars but I limit my efforts to the basics like brakes, plugs, wires etc. Most of the mechanical work this car will need will be done by a local mechanic so again I don't want to go overboard on the purchase price. If I love the car I will need to convince my wife that I need to keep it, otherwise I'll enjoy it for a couple of years and sell it.

I would appreciate any guidance on what I should be watching out for and also what kind of value this may have in its current unrestored state. I don't want to overspend knowing it will need at least $5,000 in mechanical work and another $1,000 in cosmetic work to make it presentable.

Some pics

Amber Gramps

Sounds like a car you could market to the Europeans for $50,000 all day long, as is, if it weren't for that tranny.

I can't see it being a bad investment long term.

Marine Blue

The auto definitely is one of the things that makes me hesitate. My understanding is that it costs $8000 to convert it to a MT. Not many have experience with this transmission so it's a big unknown as far as performance. I do know that they raced these auto's back in the day so they are robust.

Marine Blue

I guess my first post was too long thus no responses.

So I received additional information this morning and some of the info I had learned earlier was false.

The car was imported from Mexico and registered in Arizona which explains why there is minimal rust on the car. It has had 5 owners and the current owner has had some maintenance done which is a huge plus.

Based upon this new information I am going to buy it and restore it slowly with my son. My wife is on board with the idea and hanging on to the car for a while so I have the vote count I need.

I'll post up more pics when I can and more details as I gather the info. I'm trying to get the latest maintenance done to the engine/trans and will post my findings. I'm buying without a PPI so there is some risk.

Wish me luck.

Amber Gramps

There ya go. Congrats. Keep the amber corners and post some more pictures.

rusnak

Does it have the self levelling suspension? My dad had a later model E. I want to say '72? I still tell him that if he had it today, it'd be the most valuable car he's ever owned.

I love the houndstooth upholstery. See if you can find out more about the car, and if the seats are original.

I'd probably keep the Sportomatic. In fact, I'd probably restore it to bone stock original. What an interesting car.

Marine Blue

I'm not sure if it still has the self leveling suspension. I know it was common to remove them since they were a hassle to maintain. I guess I'll find out soon, the car is not yet in my hands nor is this deal done yet. I need to negotiate the price and I want to make sure I don't overspend.

Judging by the appearance of the car, the only thing that doesn't look original is the paint. It has definitely been resprayed. The interior houndstooth looks like it will be reusable and is in very good shape actually. The vinyl also looks good except for the drivers bolster. The problem with the seats is that the insides have COMPLETELY deteriorated. When I sat in the drivers seat everything compressed and I went right to the floor. So after the mechanicals are tended to I plan on taking the interior apart, cleaning/restoring what I can and replacing anything that is beyond repair.

Once the interior is tended to I will start working on the undercarriage and grinding off the surface rust and loose undercoating. I'll definitely need some guidance with this since I don't have any grinding experience.

Stay tuned, I'll report back when its a done deal.

Carrera51

I hope you end up with the car. Love these barn/garage find stories.

Pavegeno928

Good Luck...pls post pictures of your restoration...

JCP911S

In today's market, a fully restored, no excuse 911E would probably be worth at least $80-100K or more... but this is for a top-notch concours car.

A full concours restoration on a solid, running car would easily cost $60-100K.

If the car runs and drives, just get it road-worthy and have fun with it, and let the market keep appreciating. Legitimate "barn-find" cars have tremendous value in themselves.

I would not retro-fit the sport-matic... keep the car as original as possible. Keep all original parts even if they are scruffy.

Preserving originality is the most important thing to future collectors. The worst thing you can do is an amateur "home-handyman" fuzz-up... this will destroy the car's value.

Don't be the guy that refinishes an 18th century Chippendale chair with Min-wax and Polyurethane.

That said, conversion of the E front suspension was so common in period, I don't think that will hurt it's collector value.

Enjoy the car.

Marine Blue

Being a former concours guy I know how important originality is but doesn't it make sense to at least address the light surface rust and put some POR on it to stop the cancer?

Regarding the seats, would redoing the internals hurt value? Seems counter intuitive.

JCP911S

No, not at all. Sounds like you understand the concept of sympathetic restoration. Some people do, but some people don't.

GTgears

It all depends on if you want preservation class which require certain percentages of original paint and equipment or a concours quality restoration.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Solid-gold advice.

911E's are rare and Sportomatics, even more so. Its a unique transmission and quite reliable provided one maintains everything properly. One simply learns NEVER to touch the gear change lever unless you wish to shift.

Its best value will be in its original color and that's a $15K+ project with full cost recovery (and then some).

Enjoy!!

racerbvd

Yes, you DON'T want to swap out the tranny, believe it or not, those are becoming more desirable, one of the reasons is so many were swapped out, the another, people are getting older and knees go bad.