timlooney

I have a buddy that is heavily into Mitsubishi DSM (Eclipse/Talon AWD Tsi) racing. He is not the typical Rice Boy, actually the opposite. His car actually looked like a pile of bolts until he recently repainted it. A fast pile of bolts, but none the less a pile of bolts. His car consistently dynos at 465 hp (wheels). Not too bad for a 2.0 liter 4 cylinder. His 1/4 mile drag time is in the high 10's. We actually made some of the most expensive seat brackets: TIG welded Titanium flat stock drilled with lightening holes.

He starts in on this dollar/hp stuff that could drive you to drink. He knows of a couple of people that have put the turbo DSM motor into a 911. They have had some good luck. He thinks that it is a great idea and that everyone should do it. He claims that with the increased power, reduced weight, and affordable price tag that it is a no brainer. He estimated that it would cost about $5000 in parts to make the conversion and the benefits would be so outstanding that you would loose your mind.

I have seen the Porchev conversion but not too much information about a Porclipse. I need some info to battle the constant barrage of "Japanese has better performance than German" that I hear.


I will probably be black listed (or banned) for even thinking this.

CamB

Well, basically he is right. But just because he can doesn't mean he should.

911s are cool because they look cool, the flat 6 sounds great, and is very well engineered. A well looked after 911 engine is good for well over 100k miles of thrashing.

His 465hp (at the wheels - yikes) motor will need rebuilding often. The sad part is that as a 300hp motor it would last for ages.

And 300hp is a lot of $$$ from a 911 motor.

But I reiterate. Just because he can doesn't mean everyone will love it. Same as the Porschev stuff.

CDiercks

I have an eclipse as my daily driver. those cars can put out some big horse power with less money, but there are so many potential problems with them when you start upgrading. 300 hp out of a 911 is a lot of money, but it will last a heck of a lot longer. *8* main bearings, forged rods, dry sump, too many to list...... I am confident that my 81 911 will be around much longer than my eclipse.

timlooney

Hi All,

I have to agree, there is nothing like German Engineering. I have a rule in my house: I buy German cars and American Trucks. I will have to save my pennies for a Cayenne before I can change the rule.

What I think is funny is that because the motors are so cheap he keeps two or three race ready engines in his garage. He goes through an engine a summer on average. Tonight he is replacing a blown head gasket (Ha Ha).

I guess I will have to keep up the " Shut Up Rice Boy" comments as my best defense for now. If I start throwing out any kind of technical data it always comes back to $.

Thanks

Stuttgart951

Its a pretty original idea, and Im sure that, by the numbers it would be an all around better car (faster and lighter)... but whats a 911 without the flat six whinegrowl?

Roamer

Neat idea, but I would not be so sure that the motor is lighter. Many of the japanese engines have iron blocks which make them very durable but also very heavy. Add the turbo and associated piping and you may end up in the same ballpark.

As for performance, the more you stress the motor, the shorter the life. Period. A 3.2 making 260-300hp is under FAR less stress than a 2.0 liter turbo making ~450hp. That's why he keeps rebuilding or replacing the motor.

In the end, I think anytime you mix the breed you lose those things that make it a porsche. The sound of an air cooled flat six is unique in the motoring world and is part of why many of us enjoy the experience. I plan on some serious power upgrades in the relatively near future, but done "as Porsche" might have done it, using as many factory parts as possible. The nice thing about Porsches is that somewhere there are factory parts that can handle whatever power levels you might desire (within reason). If you want a reasonable and serious power upgrade, try swapping in a 3.3 liter turbo motor. Those will make 450hp all day long without breaking.

sschmerg

You should just start with a 930 instead of a 911, rather than put a P.O.S. Chrysler/Mitusbishi motor in a Porsche for $5000. You can get some of the early ones, or grey market models for a decent price. Start with that, and then check out some of the mods people on the 930 board do. Big time power, and all (or mostly) Porsche.

Just my 2 cents.

-Sean

CamB

P.O.S. Chrysler/Mitusbishi motor

This is a pretty big call. Those engines will make 400hp on stock internals and the bottom end is good for 750hp with uprated fasteners only (plus new pistons etc).

Lets compare apples to apples - a 930 engine making more than 200hp/litre won't last forever either. It just starts with an extra 1.3 litres of displacement.

geo.aigel

I am wondering, where is the center of gravity on this 'replacement engine' once it is in the 911? The chevy small block conversion suffers from the high center of gravity of the engine most, making the car a drag racer, practically useless for competition driving like autocross or time trials. Unless the engine you put has a similar low center of gravity like the flat six, it is a stupid idea, because it will render the car useless for what it was built originally.

One more argument against a Frankenstein is: Who's going to buy it from you, if you want to switch toys? I am sure that what you saved up front, you may loose trying to sell the car. This is unimportant for folks that hold on to their toys forever, but I sure like to swith around a bit if it comes to cars!

Cheers, George

sschmerg

CamB:

I didn't mention anything about longevity -- clearly one won't get that with any highly modified motor. What I was referring to was what George termed the "Frankenstein" and the cost and difficulty of the conversion. Perhaps “P.O.S.” was a bit harsh, but please don't take offense; I'm just trying to offer some constructive criticism!

I don't see any good rationale for starting with a n/a 911 and putting a turbo DSM motor in it, while completely destroying the car's unique "Porsche-ness" (if you will). I don't know (or care to know) the specifics of such a conversion, but it would seem to make more sense to just start with a 930 and tweak that. At least it's still fully a Porsche, and as George mentioned, the ability to sell it when you want to "upgrade" remains. Who but a very select few will be interested in buying a 911 with a DSM engine?

-Sean

PCar SBA

Why not take the Mitsubishi DSM, cut the fenders and the roof off and get some cheap fiber glass body kit and bondo to make it look like a 911.....

Seriously, I tend to agree that while you could probably swap an Eclipse motor into a 911 (just as any other motor) it doesn't seem to make too much sense except for the mechanical challenge of doing it.....

is

CamB

Sean - I agree entirely. I only posted because, as inappropriate as it may be, the motor itself is not a POS.

Plus I had had too much coffee or something like that. I wasn't meaning to flame you

Jim Florance

I've seen so many posts like this and they are always entertaining to read the replies they inspire. Basically, I agree with all the reasons why not to do such a thing: a Porsche should remain pure below the surface. The car was designed as a whole, they work so well as they were originally conceived, I can't imagine changing it. If you want to go faster, spend the money and either beef up your porsche motor or step up to a turbo. I believe everything else is an abonimation. That's my opinion on the subject, but please guys, keep on suggesting these ricer variants, the "true believer" responce commentary is always good for a smile!

Flying Finn

Even if the car puts up 1000 hp it won't be as good as it is with the original 200 something engine.

BTW,

Are you sure one can get the engine and then make it to produce 500+ hp with $5000?

Anyway, if ti was me who needed axtra power (don't we all?) I'd rather chime $20000 and get used 993 TT engine.
That would put up ~450 hp and not blow up every month.

sschmerg

Cameron:

No problem! This kind of post never fails to entertain!

-Sean