porsche_addict

I am looking at updating/lowering the suspension on my stock '87 Carrera Cab with 48k. My goals are to lower the car to Euro height and stiffen the ride up a bit from the stock setup.

The car is a weekend driver so I want to keep it relatively comfortable for touring and daily driving. I'm looking at a Bilstein setup but am wondering the difference between the regular and the sport line. What would I do with the torsion bars to match the Bilsteins? What do I need to lower the ride to Euro height?

A4

Surprised no one has there are usually a million different opinions on suspension mods and set up. I just did this recently on my '88 and documented on PP:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...d-pelican.html

Mine is a coupe so not sure on cab differences however I went with Bilstein sports in the rear and HD's up front. I kept the sways and T-Bars stock but just upgrade all the bushings to ERP including A-arm, shock mount sways etc. I also upgraded to Turbo tie rods and replaced the ball joints and lowered to euro hieight. In all the ride is so much more firm and responsive. for a street driver its perfect in MHO.

Good luck!

wildcat077

Turbo tie rods,Bilstein Sports all around and i wouldn't recommend stiffening the ride ,especially for a street car.Front is real easy to lower,a good rule of thumb is to be able to slide your hand between the top of the tire and the fender arch and for the rear slide your hand up to the knuckles between the top of the tires and the fender arch.If you're lucky you won't have to reindex the rear torsion bars ... once you're all set, get a good alignment and corner balance and rediscover your car !

Cheers
Phil

Rob Heath

So my '88 was my daily driver but was getting into PCA driving events and when I had it lowered, suspension refresh, etc. I went with Koni adjustable shocks - koni model number 8641-1039 Sport 911 73-89 front, 8210-1159 Sport 911 73-89 Rear. I bought them from Shox.com and my local shop installed them, lowered, and other suspension refresh.

They have an plastic **** that fits on the tops of the shock (all 4) and you can go from relatively soft to pretty stiff. I'd drive to a DE and adjust the shocks when I got to the event. Nice feature is that you can soften them up for day to day driving.

My 912 (same torsion bar suspension as an '87 & '88) has Bilstein Sports. It is quite stiff and glad that it is not my daily driver. In retrospect should have gone with stock Koni, a little more comfortable.

If your '87 has it's original shocks, bushings, etc you will be amazed at what a suspension refresh will do for your car.

HorstP

interesting. I have Koni front and rear too, but only the fronts have the **** quick adjust feature. The rears can be adjusted but only when removed from the car. I will look up the number and compare with yours. Maybe newer ones do.

Rob Heath

HorstP yes both front and rear Koni shocks noted in my post have a plastic **** to adjust the shock stiffness.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ko...FcJqfgodD24AAA. Here is a picture of the rear. At the very top of the shock there is a short metal shaft that looks like a flat screwdriver, the white plastic **** has a slot for the metal shaft and I think it was three turns (360x3) that you could go through entire range.

I bought these about 4 years ago and was very happy with them.

race911

Yes, the ancient Konis were compress-and-adjust.

Bigger question is why anyone thinks it matters on any of these old POS "legacy" dampers? Anyone seriously look at dyno data?

HorstP

Ken,

not sure what you are trying to say and what the connection to dyno data should be?

race911

Well, it was two thoughts not entirely separated.

In the Olden Days, the Koni hydraulic shock was adjustable. For rebound. Yes, you had to remove (or at least unfasten one end) to accomplish that. Flash forward to the gas shocks, and I believe the 911 rear units mirrored the four cylinder, water cooled models where you still had to remove/unfasten, press a button, compress and turn. Or maybe I'm all confused in my advanced age......... The final iteration are the ones with the attachable ****, turn while mounted and adjust.

What this has to do with looking at the compression/rebound characteristics on a dyno are everything. Dampers today are mindblowingly sophisticated. Now, whether someone wants to pay to go to that level, and whether it's worth it on a street/casual DE car is debatable. But the technology is there. And does it make a difference. Bottom line is that I'd probably stay with stock, versus these one-size-fits-all, designed in the '70s units retailers are oh-so glad to sell you. One exception would be a Bilstein, then working with an expert in 911 suspension who has his dyno charts, and can evaluate what's best for you to get them revalved.

HorstP

Ken, Please help me with that revalve thing. What gets adjusted to what. I guess you match torsion bar size to the dampener?

As said I have (yellow) Koni in my 87, that's the way I got it and I don't have anything to compare. I feel pretty happy with it but have nada experience.

race911

I'll quickly refer you to a couple of sites. Either of which may have your head hurting after as few as two minutes:

http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets20.html

http://www.optimumg.com/technical/technical-papers/ (scroll down to "Springs and Dampers")

And I'll flatly state that I truly understand about as much of this stuff as I do a Porsche manual.............written in German.

HorstP

Thanks!

Looks like I will shop for new shocks some time soon

JCP911S

If your objective is to blow $15K of your money, there are lots of options. If not, here are some random thoughts.

If this is intended as a street car, big bars and stiff shocks are simply going to result in a harsh miserable car... especially on a Cab, which does not have the structural rigidity of the coupe...

Really, the factory suspension in these cars is pretty darn good... the farther you wonder from factory settings, the more lost in the woods you will get.

Generally, the reason many of these cars handle like sh#t is simply because the suspension components have deteriorated from age.

Have your suspension assessed by a reputable shop.

Assuming you are going to do a major suspension rebuild on this car i'd suggest the following...

1. Stick with the stock T-bars, but lower the ride height about 1 inch +/- this is set as a routine part of the rebuild, and will make the car look nicer and reduce roll.

2. Have the factory shocks rebuilt/re-valved. On most of these older cars, the shocks are shot. Rebuild/Revalve of the stock units is a cost effective solution... a slight sports'-oriented revalve will give you some more sporting transient response, but don't go nuts.

3. Turbo tie rod ends.

4. Check the bushings. These can deteriorate from age, and create all kinds of nasty handling problems. They are't sexy, but they are like the cartilage that hold your joints together. If I were on a budget, and wanted more responsive, sporty handling, I'd spend the $$$ for really good bushings, like Elephant Racing. They will add precision to the handling ... without stiffening the ride.

5. Get a really good suspension alignment from a good shop. These cars are incredibly sensitive to small deviation in the alignment.

6. Check all of your wheels for trueness and buy a really good set of performance tires. It's amazing what good tires do for these cars.

Really, most of the stuff you see advertised in the mags is for degenerate-compulsive racers (ahh... like me) who are looking for cost-no-object (ahh... NOT like me) track performance, but it's not really good for street use.

Extra-credit.

Warning...

I love replacing the stock steering wheel with a smaller-diameter Momo. Although this increases steering effort modestly, it transforms the responsiveness of the steering.

Have fun.

fasteddie99

Here's what I did:

Elephant polybronze bushings front/rear
22/29 Sander torsion bars
Turbo tie rods
Bump steer kit
Bilstein sport shocks and strut inserts
WEVO chrome moly swaybar consoles
Smart Racing sways front/rear
Strut tower brace
Alignment/corner balance

Probably overkill, but the car is transformed.
Lotsa fun on the street and the AX course.

SARGEPUG

I actually did the HD setup, which is below / softer than the sport line. My suspension mod list is in my signature and also go for the strut tower brace in the frunk. You can see how my car sits in my sig pic, that's the Euro ride height.