James Achard

Interesting commentary. I was at the Glen for the Zone 1 in my '87 and put the foot to the floor after turn 1 and did not let up until the bus stop. I was managing about 125 out of the esses and was able to keep up with my friend in an RSA if I got a bit of a draft after the last apex...After the bus stop I was faster though. The 964's have great torque and I'm still a bit baffled why they are still in the same stock class in PCA. with the torque advantage as well as the suspension improvements, the extra weigh becomes negligible. I still prefer my '87 though since it's a bit chaper to maintain....

Cheers, James

Troy Matz

[quote]Originally posted by Jeff Curtis:
<strong>Troy, a factory C2 (964) comes with 246BHP, not 210 as you stated...unless you were speaking of RWHP...but when compared to your 217HP for a late Carrera, I assumed you were talking BHP?? </strong><hr></blockquote>

Sorry about the confusion. As Mr. Herod states I was taking into account the rough calculation for hp vs weight. BTW my Euro has 231BHP. This and a 2nd gear that is much shorter than US makes for very quick starts as well as awesome autocross acceleration (that and 10.5:1 compression is likely why I am placed in the class with 928s). I would assume losses through the drive train to the rear wheels are the same for both makes.

This grey market car I drive 12K+ miles/yr is a whole other animal when compared to US 84-89 911s so that is likely a source of my bias. It wasn't until 1995 that the US 911 starts to boast a better hp/wt ratio. The 993 IMHO is such a much better car, that I would make the sacrifices neccessary to skip over the 964.

112344

Thanks to all who replied to my question! You provided a lot of information, all of it helpful.

After looking at a number of cars, I bought a 1989 3.2 liter Cabriolet, red with front and rear spoilers. It is in perfect condition with just 43,500 miles. An associate whose opinion I trust and value runs a specialty car service shop and has serviced the car for the last 5 years. He knows the car and the prior owner personally. He recently performed a major service on the car and assures me the car is in excellent condition. This more than anything made the decision for me.

I look forward to continuing to participate in this forum as I learn more, and have more questions. The positive and helpful nature of the particpants is the best I have experienced online.

I pick the car up in about one week and can't wait.

HJM
1989 3.2 Cabriolet

pig4bill

Funky arithmetic aside, I've got a 1990 Car and Driver where they tested a C2 at low 13's in the 1/4 and sub-5 second 0-60. Stock Carreras don't come anywhere near that, and they don't feel nearly as fast as a 964 to me either.

JonSeigel

[quote] and if you care about the overall auto market - it thought enough of the 964 to almost put Porsche out of business. FWIW.<hr></blockquote>

As another poster explained, low Porsche sales were due to the U.S. recession ("it's the economy, stupid" was the theme of the 1992 Presidential election) and the relationship between the dollar and the german mark. 928 sales plunged from the prior years and Porsche sold only 4600 968s in the U.S. from 1992-1995. Although virtually no one disputes that the 968 was superior to the 944 it replaced, 968 sales were much lower than 944 sales in the 80s. MB and BMW sales fell too.

In this case, low 964 sales were due to the market's refusal to purchase expensive german autos during that time period.

JackOlsen

richard glickel

Of course, there's always the carrera with the 3.6L conversion. Lot's of fun. I can keep up with the 930s of the same vintage (and they can't catch me).

Ed, what's with the black flags? That's nothing to boast about. The fact that you and your pals are faster around the track than less experienced (or talented) driver's doesn't make the track YOURS! If you want to be a racer, by all means, go for it. There's club racing, SCCA & some other organizations. But, at driver's ed. (if that's what you're talking about) it seems to me that the aggresive stuff is just chicken ****.

Yeah, I get frustrated too, especially when I'm behind a slower driver with an instructor in his/her car and I'm not getting the pass-by hand signal. I'll get close and flash my headlamps and you wonder whether they driver in front is even checking the mirrors. But, in the final analysis, it's all just recreational driving, not NASCAR. I've suffered no delusions about who I am or what my day job is.

Hey, I don't mean to sound like an old lady but why not keep it safe?

richard
'87 Carrera-3.6L

JonSeigel

Jack:
That sticker is *too cool.* Bravo!

Randall G.

[quote]Originally posted by Troy Matz:
<strong>***snip***

and if you care about the overall auto market - it thought enough of the 964 to almost put Porsche out of business. FWIW.</strong><hr></blockquote>

If I recall my history correctly, Porsche sales were already in the ditch by the late 80's. Porsche put a lot of effort into the 964, in hope that its improved performance & comfort would convince buyers that the car was modern and worth the hefty admission price.

Jay H

To back up Randall's comments above:

911 sales were on a skid from 1987 forward. I believe 1986 and 1987 were the years for the highest 3.2 production numbers. 1988 and 1989 3.2 car sales were down vs. the prior years. The 3.2 cars were no longer very desireable to new Porsche buyers back in the late 80's. I remember reading all the car mag test drives from those years stating that the 3.2 cars were just getting 'long in the tooth' and it was time for Porsche to do something to improve the 911. I disagree that the 964 model was a factor in Porsche's poor sales numbers. The then new model probably helped a bit.

911 sales numbers jumped again in 1990 and 1991, but as mentioned, other factors contributed to low sales of Porsche cars in the early to mid 1990's. Sales really tanked in 1992 and 1993 until the 'affordable' 993 came out in 1994. LOTS of things changed in the economy between 1989 (introduction of the 964) and 1994 (when the 993 was introduced).

Jon S. makes a great point above that we lost the 928 and the 968 during that early 1990's time period. Both of those were stunning Porsche's too. If the 964 had not come around in 1989, I wonder what would have happened to the 911...

richard glickel

I believe the stock market crash of October '87 (Black October), was a major contributing factor to slumping "exotic" new car sales.

richard
'87 Carrera-3.6L

Randall G.

And speaking of stunning Porsches that died a slow-sales death in the late 80's/early 90's, let's not forget the 944 Turbo.

Superdave312

Jack is right.

Railmaster.

Easy one! Go for a 3,2 with a 3,6 engine!