OT: Friend's Article on Selling his 1977 911S
06-10-2013, 08:51 PM
#16
Race Director
Who's claiming it is? Original post linked to, among other things, a photo captioned what is "wrong" and "right." Sad and pathetic to suggest that maybe some of us with decades of experience in 911s, on and off track, might find setup trumps layout? Wherever a 911 has run against a Porsche mid-engined layout, amateur or pro, it hasn't made much of a difference. From the early 914 days at LeMans to what I've observed lately in the Continental/Koni Grand Am series. Step it back to amateur hour, and we've got over 20 years of PCA Club Racing data to consider, too.
Anyway, happy to compare data on what I have with 911s versus pretty much any other platform out there. (And yeah, I can extrapolate up or down with my own in the Radical and Spec Miata.)
And any 911 ever has run exactly how large of an engine? Don't remember Corvettes exactly having a stellar record against the 935s in the GTX days. But at some point forced induction=bad.
set up of course is important, but all else equal, with set ups proper for the platform, the mid engined car is easier to drive fast.
As for engine size...nobody said the 911 couldn't use a larger engine. Run what you brung. Porsche can't compete on a torque and hp basis with the flat 6. It just does not have the nuts to hang with 427 vettes.
heres an idea of how badly they are restricted:
06-10-2013, 09:16 PM
#17
Also, ask yourself why all race cars have the engine and driver between the wheels... F1, Indy, NASCAR, prototypes... all are mid-engined. It doesn't seem coincidental to me.
Anyway, y'all are entitled to your opinions and I'm done. If my opinions and fuzzy sciences are upsetting, don't read the zine. If you can look past a difference of opinion and enjoy travel and car stories then keep reading... Thanks to those who do!
06-10-2013, 10:03 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
I know you've lived with your handicap all of your life, but maybe you aren't such an authority on such? Any factory race car Porsche puts out is based on stock suspension pick up points and tub. There is nothing close to stock with a Corvette, for instance, running in ALMS currently. They are full on tube framed race cars. Talk about handicapping, the ALMS bent so many rules to let the new BMW's in, it is almost comical. So there's your handicapping.
06-10-2013, 10:20 PM
#20
Race Director
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...-corvette-c6-r
this seems to indicate that the chassis is basically stock with only some susp. pick up point modifications. You have links that say otherwise?
this seems to indicate that the chassis is basically stock with only some susp. pick up point modifications. You have links that say otherwise?
06-10-2013, 11:01 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
that proves my point exactly... the fact that you can drive the 910 in a slide means that its oversteer is less violent and more progressive than a 911's... this is because it has a smaller polar moment of inertia. Think of it this way... what would be easier to stop in a spin, all other factors equal: a stone in a one inch sling or a stone in a ten foot sling?
I'm not even going to get into the fail of your claim these oh-so superior mid-engined cars basically can't be stopped from spinning once you DO hit the point of no return--910 on bias plys, Radical on Radials, etc. etc.
06-10-2013, 11:36 PM
#22
Team Owner
and the crybabies are out again.
rear engine location is fundamental flawed. I give them credit only for having developed it as far as they have. Then again, each generation the engine moves forward.
Show me a top level race car with a rear engine, and you'll get some credence. Its simply not as good as a mid engine platform.
Why the hell you clowns need to cry every time some one puts something online that doesn't confirm your own OPINION that the 911 is the end all, be all will never be clear to me. What is clear is that its sad and rather pathetic.
rear engine location is fundamental flawed. I give them credit only for having developed it as far as they have. Then again, each generation the engine moves forward.
Show me a top level race car with a rear engine, and you'll get some credence. Its simply not as good as a mid engine platform.
Why the hell you clowns need to cry every time some one puts something online that doesn't confirm your own OPINION that the 911 is the end all, be all will never be clear to me. What is clear is that its sad and rather pathetic.
06-11-2013, 08:22 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...-corvette-c6-r
this seems to indicate that the chassis is basically stock with only some susp. pick up point modifications. You have links that say otherwise?
this seems to indicate that the chassis is basically stock with only some susp. pick up point modifications. You have links that say otherwise?
"As a GT-class race car, the C6.R must have production car origins. As such, Pratt & Miller starts with the wide aluminum chassis of the Corvette ZR1, which was chosen over the narrower (and perhaps more aerodynamic) chassis of a base Vette. The floor, the tunnel and the tilt steering column are also production parts, but new suspension pickup points are welded in, and the aluminum suspension subframes are replaced by ones made of steel, for better performance in an accident, says Binks."
Again, they get to stretch what part of a production car the race cars are. They use creative verbiage for guys like you to drool over, thinking the cars in the showroom are anywhere near the same. Maybe you need to buy one? You don't seem to care too much for Porsches.
06-11-2013, 02:42 PM
#24
Race Director
06-11-2013, 02:44 PM
#25
Race Director
Ok, you can google, but reading comprehension isn't your strong point. From your link, EXACTLY what I stated about suspension pickup points and tube frame:
"As a GT-class race car, the C6.R must have production car origins. As such, Pratt & Miller starts with the wide aluminum chassis of the Corvette ZR1, which was chosen over the narrower (and perhaps more aerodynamic) chassis of a base Vette. The floor, the tunnel and the tilt steering column are also production parts, but new suspension pickup points are welded in, and the aluminum suspension subframes are replaced by ones made of steel, for better performance in an accident, says Binks."
Again, they get to stretch what part of a production car the race cars are. They use creative verbiage for guys like you to drool over, thinking the cars in the showroom are anywhere near the same. Maybe you need to buy one? You don't seem to care too much for Porsches.
"As a GT-class race car, the C6.R must have production car origins. As such, Pratt & Miller starts with the wide aluminum chassis of the Corvette ZR1, which was chosen over the narrower (and perhaps more aerodynamic) chassis of a base Vette. The floor, the tunnel and the tilt steering column are also production parts, but new suspension pickup points are welded in, and the aluminum suspension subframes are replaced by ones made of steel, for better performance in an accident, says Binks."
Again, they get to stretch what part of a production car the race cars are. They use creative verbiage for guys like you to drool over, thinking the cars in the showroom are anywhere near the same. Maybe you need to buy one? You don't seem to care too much for Porsches.
Maybe I should buy one. They probably whine less than the average 911 owner.
06-11-2013, 02:58 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
You don't. Every time you come here to slum, you're inflammatory, so +1001 on what ice said. Maybe a new poster of Taylor Swift above your bunk bed, or another Justin Beeber CD will put you in a better mood?
06-11-2013, 11:11 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
I'm sure this is very similar to what the typical dealer sells off the showroom floor.
06-12-2013, 11:50 AM
#29
Rennlist Member
Who cares if it's the best, 2nd best, or worst...I just love driving my 911. It's an amazing platform once you understand how to drive it!
For those who are still confused about how to drive these cars... watch this:
Richard Tuthill says, "...For most people it’s back to front, but for those of us in the know, it’s about the optimum you can have for this period. It’s just a question of understanding the dynamic of the car."
"…I haven’t got a great concentration span, …so in a front engine, rear wheel drive car I’m genuinely bored in about a lap, but the 911 keeps asking you questions every second you drive it."
@ 4:10 the theory of driving a 911
As a bonus, it's the interviewers first time driving a 911.
For those who are still confused about how to drive these cars... watch this:
Richard Tuthill says, "...For most people it’s back to front, but for those of us in the know, it’s about the optimum you can have for this period. It’s just a question of understanding the dynamic of the car."
"…I haven’t got a great concentration span, …so in a front engine, rear wheel drive car I’m genuinely bored in about a lap, but the 911 keeps asking you questions every second you drive it."
@ 4:10 the theory of driving a 911
As a bonus, it's the interviewers first time driving a 911.
06-12-2013, 12:08 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
Wide Open,
I just read your brief 911 article, I can't really call it a review since you didn't really relay any of your driving experiences?
I read "wrong place" a couple times and a bunch of usual derogatory stereotypes about its owners,
but nothing about what you learned about yourself as a driver, while driving the 911...
Can't wait to see what you get next, that's when you'll really miss the 911!
The video won't queue up correctly, start @ 3:44 to get a better understanding.
I just read your brief 911 article, I can't really call it a review since you didn't really relay any of your driving experiences?
I read "wrong place" a couple times and a bunch of usual derogatory stereotypes about its owners,
but nothing about what you learned about yourself as a driver, while driving the 911...
Can't wait to see what you get next, that's when you'll really miss the 911!
The video won't queue up correctly, start @ 3:44 to get a better understanding.
Last edited by 911Jetta; 06-12-2013 at 01:05 PM.