Ignition coil compatibilility
04-01-2013, 12:18 PM
#1
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Ignition coil compatibilility
so A few years ago i bought the bosch ignition coil for my car as I thought mine has been in there for about 30 years and figure i should have a spare. So i ordered one and got the " brazillian paperweight" from a suplier .. Didint like it off the bat as it was silver .. put it in , off I went and 20 minutes later i was dead at the side of the road .. so much for that experiment.
so i put my 30 year old one back and have been fine ever since.
I was just looking around this morning and found there is a black coil available used on Carreras and and 964s ( BOS1616096 ).
I was just wondering if anyone new if this would work on the SC. of course it doesnt come with the SC bracket but who cares .. i can take that off my paperweight. i just dont know enough about these coils to know if the windings are the same . i would have thought a 12v coil is a 12v coil and only differes from mounting hardware ..
Anyone know ?
Thanks
so i put my 30 year old one back and have been fine ever since.
I was just looking around this morning and found there is a black coil available used on Carreras and and 964s ( BOS1616096 ).
I was just wondering if anyone new if this would work on the SC. of course it doesnt come with the SC bracket but who cares .. i can take that off my paperweight. i just dont know enough about these coils to know if the windings are the same . i would have thought a 12v coil is a 12v coil and only differes from mounting hardware ..
Anyone know ?
Thanks
04-01-2013, 12:35 PM
#2
"I was just wondering if anyone new if this would work on the SC"
Yes, any inductive discharge system (TCI) coil will work fine on any CDI (capacitive
discharge ignition) system. The converse is not the case.
Check here for coil info under 'Typical Ignition Coil Values':
http://www.systemsc.com/diagnostic.htm
As usual, read here from the 'brain dead' (the blind leading the blind) on the 'Dark Side'
for the typical mis-information on this issue, as is the case for most posts there:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...l-71-911t.html
Yes, any inductive discharge system (TCI) coil will work fine on any CDI (capacitive
discharge ignition) system. The converse is not the case.
Check here for coil info under 'Typical Ignition Coil Values':
http://www.systemsc.com/diagnostic.htm
As usual, read here from the 'brain dead' (the blind leading the blind) on the 'Dark Side'
for the typical mis-information on this issue, as is the case for most posts there:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...l-71-911t.html
04-01-2013, 12:47 PM
#3
Team Owner
Thread Starter
"I was just wondering if anyone new if this would work on the SC"
Yes, any inductive discharge system (TCI) coil will work fine on any CDI (capacitive
discharge ignition) system. The converse is not the case.
Check here for coil info under 'Typical Ignition Coil Values':
http://www.systemsc.com/diagnostic.htm
As usual, read here from the 'brain dead' (the blind leading the blind) on the 'Dark Side'
for the typical mis-information on this issue, as is the case for most posts there:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...l-71-911t.html
Yes, any inductive discharge system (TCI) coil will work fine on any CDI (capacitive
discharge ignition) system. The converse is not the case.
Check here for coil info under 'Typical Ignition Coil Values':
http://www.systemsc.com/diagnostic.htm
As usual, read here from the 'brain dead' (the blind leading the blind) on the 'Dark Side'
for the typical mis-information on this issue, as is the case for most posts there:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...l-71-911t.html
Thanks for the info Loren.
04-01-2013, 12:48 PM
#4
Drifting
"I was just wondering if anyone new if this would work on the SC"
Yes, any inductive discharge system (TCI) coil will work fine on any CDI (capacitive
discharge ignition) system. The converse is not the case.
Check here for coil info under 'Typical Ignition Coil Values':
http://www.systemsc.com/diagnostic.htm
Yes, any inductive discharge system (TCI) coil will work fine on any CDI (capacitive
discharge ignition) system. The converse is not the case.
Check here for coil info under 'Typical Ignition Coil Values':
http://www.systemsc.com/diagnostic.htm
Sorry, simply NOT true.
CDI coils act a step-up TRANSFORMERS, ~300 volts applied for QUICK build-up of primary current flow. Whereas TCI coils have relatively high input inductance and takes time, 60-70% dwell, for current flow "charge" for inductive voltage "kick".
Might work in a pinch, but shouldn't be interchanged either way.
04-01-2013, 01:00 PM
#5
"CDI coils must act a step-up TRANSFORMERS, QUICK build-up of primary current flow, whereas TCI coils have relatively high input inductance and takes time, 60-70% dwell, for current flow "charge" for inductive voltage "kick"."
Total hyperbole as typically posted on the 'Dark Side'.
Bottom line: As stated, 'the blind leading the blind' causing Porsche owners
who use that website to waste time and money! Everyone there just re-posts
the hyperbole they read on another thread thinking that it's correct. And then
there're the others who do a Google search and can't discriminate hyperbole
from factual data and post that on the 'Dark Side'. What a complete joke it is!
Total hyperbole as typically posted on the 'Dark Side'.
Bottom line: As stated, 'the blind leading the blind' causing Porsche owners
who use that website to waste time and money! Everyone there just re-posts
the hyperbole they read on another thread thinking that it's correct. And then
there're the others who do a Google search and can't discriminate hyperbole
from factual data and post that on the 'Dark Side'. What a complete joke it is!
04-01-2013, 01:05 PM
#6
Drifting
"CDI coils must act a step-up TRANSFORMERS, QUICK build-up of primary current flow, whereas TCI coils have relatively high input inductance and takes time, 60-70% dwell, for current flow "charge" for inductive voltage "kick"."
Total hyperbole as typically posted on the 'Dark Side'.
Bottom line: As stated, 'the blind leading the blind' causing Porsche owners
who use that website to waste time and money! Everyone there just re-posts
the hyperbole they read on another thread thinking that it's correct.
Total hyperbole as typically posted on the 'Dark Side'.
Bottom line: As stated, 'the blind leading the blind' causing Porsche owners
who use that website to waste time and money! Everyone there just re-posts
the hyperbole they read on another thread thinking that it's correct.
Paragraph 4.1
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1082044649.jpg
04-01-2013, 01:51 PM
#7
Drifting
"CDI coils must act a step-up TRANSFORMERS, QUICK build-up of primary current flow, whereas TCI coils have relatively high input inductance and takes time, 60-70% dwell, for current flow "charge" for inductive voltage "kick"."
Total hyperbole as typically posted on the 'Dark Side'.
Bottom line: As stated, 'the blind leading the blind' causing Porsche owners
who use that website to waste time and money!
Everyone there just re-posts the hyperbole they read on another thread thinking that it's correct.
No, see below.
And then there're the others who do a Google search and can't discriminate hyperbole
from factual data and post that on the 'Dark Side'. What a complete joke it is!
Total hyperbole as typically posted on the 'Dark Side'.
Bottom line: As stated, 'the blind leading the blind' causing Porsche owners
who use that website to waste time and money!
Everyone there just re-posts the hyperbole they read on another thread thinking that it's correct.
No, see below.
And then there're the others who do a Google search and can't discriminate hyperbole
from factual data and post that on the 'Dark Side'. What a complete joke it is!
Adding "charging coil" to the CDI circuit design provides substantual circuit improvement.
Began building solid state version in 1967 for CDI conversion from point type automotive ignitions.
Last edited by wwest; 08-27-2013 at 02:34 PM.
Trending Topics
04-01-2013, 02:42 PM
#9
"Used in the USAF FPS-3 & 6 dewline ground radar to fire the RADAR transmitting magnetron."
Totally applicable to a Porsche/Bosch CDI system, right?
"I think this merits posting."
Not really! More erroneous info found on internet.
Again, for the naive who believe everything posted and written from day
one, including that the earth at one point was thought to be not round,
not all internet info is always applicable/correct. One can always find
old-wives-tails to quote.
Bottom line: Keep 'digging-up' and posting hyperbole with NO technical
understanding of the issue! Maybe, try sticking to posts about what's
the best car wax.
Actually, using a conventional TCI coil results in less stress (lower peak currents)
to the CDI output stage (the SCR & the capacitor) in most cases. Remember:
1/2 I * I * L (primary of coil) = 1/2 V * V * C (CDI capacitor)
Conventional coils (TCI) have higher primary inductance as they store the
energy for the spark versus the CDI capacitor which stores the energy.
This results in lower peak currents for the capacitor & SCR in the CDI
type of ignition reducing its potential failure rate. Again, the coil in a CDI
system is only a transformer used to transfer the energy from the capacitor.
The TCI coil still functions as a transformer just like a CDI coil does.
When solving the above equation for I (peak current), one finds that
the current is reduced with the larger primary inductance of the TCI
(conventional) coil. Many use the Bosch blue coil as a replacement
for the original Bosch CDI coil.
Totally applicable to a Porsche/Bosch CDI system, right?
"I think this merits posting."
Not really! More erroneous info found on internet.
Again, for the naive who believe everything posted and written from day
one, including that the earth at one point was thought to be not round,
not all internet info is always applicable/correct. One can always find
old-wives-tails to quote.
Bottom line: Keep 'digging-up' and posting hyperbole with NO technical
understanding of the issue! Maybe, try sticking to posts about what's
the best car wax.
Actually, using a conventional TCI coil results in less stress (lower peak currents)
to the CDI output stage (the SCR & the capacitor) in most cases. Remember:
1/2 I * I * L (primary of coil) = 1/2 V * V * C (CDI capacitor)
Conventional coils (TCI) have higher primary inductance as they store the
energy for the spark versus the CDI capacitor which stores the energy.
This results in lower peak currents for the capacitor & SCR in the CDI
type of ignition reducing its potential failure rate. Again, the coil in a CDI
system is only a transformer used to transfer the energy from the capacitor.
The TCI coil still functions as a transformer just like a CDI coil does.
When solving the above equation for I (peak current), one finds that
the current is reduced with the larger primary inductance of the TCI
(conventional) coil. Many use the Bosch blue coil as a replacement
for the original Bosch CDI coil.
Last edited by Lorenfb; 04-01-2013 at 03:35 PM.
04-01-2013, 03:30 PM
#10
I haddah Google dat
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Got that Ice? If your 911 breaks, then we know Loren was full of it.
And I think he says to use Turtle Wax. Because turtles abhor conversationa and they snap at you. I don't think he understands the word hyperbole or perhaps he's confusing it for the word "hyopcrisy".
And I think he says to use Turtle Wax. Because turtles abhor conversationa and they snap at you. I don't think he understands the word hyperbole or perhaps he's confusing it for the word "hyopcrisy".
04-01-2013, 04:30 PM
#11
Team Owner
Thread Starter
holy crap ... and i just wanted a reliable coil that wasnt silver ....
well i ordered one that i can keep on the shelf in case mine days .. when it does we will know, as i will use the replacement one. I understand the discusion but I havent done this level of electronics in many a year now and may warrant me getting back into it just to find out.
well i ordered one that i can keep on the shelf in case mine days .. when it does we will know, as i will use the replacement one. I understand the discusion but I havent done this level of electronics in many a year now and may warrant me getting back into it just to find out.
04-01-2013, 05:15 PM
#13
Team Owner
Thread Starter
okay well although somewhat controversial , this thread has got me really interested as both parties seem to have valid "points" (ha ha )
Anyway i did some searching and those interested about what Loren and WWest are discussing and want to get a good understanding should check out the following link. It is from a motorcycle forum but does a great job in explaining what these guys are talking about . A few of the links are really good too.
http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/IgnitionFAQ.html#a7p0
as i said it has been a little while for me so served as a great refresher. From what I can gather the TCI system constantly has the coil powered and only drops the power when required to generate the secondary spark. I think this is why they do NOT recomend a lower resistance coil ( used in CDI ignition ) as this will allow more current to flow and burn out the TCI module eventually.
Would make sense that the reverse is NOT true but i need to read on and go back again to Lorens coil specs list as i have a better understanding now.
great reading..
Anyway i did some searching and those interested about what Loren and WWest are discussing and want to get a good understanding should check out the following link. It is from a motorcycle forum but does a great job in explaining what these guys are talking about . A few of the links are really good too.
http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/IgnitionFAQ.html#a7p0
as i said it has been a little while for me so served as a great refresher. From what I can gather the TCI system constantly has the coil powered and only drops the power when required to generate the secondary spark. I think this is why they do NOT recomend a lower resistance coil ( used in CDI ignition ) as this will allow more current to flow and burn out the TCI module eventually.
Would make sense that the reverse is NOT true but i need to read on and go back again to Lorens coil specs list as i have a better understanding now.
great reading..
04-01-2013, 05:20 PM
#14
Drifting
A regular point/coil ignition system relies mostly on the inductive "Q" and the resulting inductive voltage rise, "kick" resulting from the opening of the points. Basically, the newly collapsing magnetic field will result in the rise in voltage on the secondary (and primary) until a voltage level is reached that results in the iestablishment of an arc across the plug gap.
That is unless there is a lower voltage source of current flow, leakage or arc elsewhere.
CDI systems, on the other hand rely STRICKLY on the turns ratio between the primary and secondary to establish the maximum (hopefully never reached) secondary voltage. No inductive "kick" involved since there was no energy stored in the coil prior tothe point of ignition requirement.
CDI therefore requires a step-up "transformer" type of ignition coil vs the high "Q" inductance type required for the old standard Kettering ignition type.
That is unless there is a lower voltage source of current flow, leakage or arc elsewhere.
CDI systems, on the other hand rely STRICKLY on the turns ratio between the primary and secondary to establish the maximum (hopefully never reached) secondary voltage. No inductive "kick" involved since there was no energy stored in the coil prior tothe point of ignition requirement.
CDI therefore requires a step-up "transformer" type of ignition coil vs the high "Q" inductance type required for the old standard Kettering ignition type.
04-01-2013, 05:28 PM
#15
Team Owner
Thread Starter
A regular point/coil ignition system relies mostly on the inductive "Q" and the resulting inductive voltage rise, "kick" resulting from the opening of the points. Basically, the newly collapsing magnetic field will result in the rise in voltage on the secondary (and primary) until a voltage level is reached that results in the iestablishment of an arc across the plug gap.
That is unless there is a lower voltage source of current flow, leakage or arc elsewhere.
CDI systems, on the other hand rely STRICKLY on the turns ratio between the primary and secondary to establish the maximum (hopefully never reached) secondary voltage. No inductive "kick" involved since there was no energy stored in the coil prior tothe point of ignition requirement.
CDI therefore requires a step-up "transformer" type of ignition coil vs the high "Q" inductance type required for the old standard Kettering ignition type.
That is unless there is a lower voltage source of current flow, leakage or arc elsewhere.
CDI systems, on the other hand rely STRICKLY on the turns ratio between the primary and secondary to establish the maximum (hopefully never reached) secondary voltage. No inductive "kick" involved since there was no energy stored in the coil prior tothe point of ignition requirement.
CDI therefore requires a step-up "transformer" type of ignition coil vs the high "Q" inductance type required for the old standard Kettering ignition type.