New Member with 911 Carrera RallyCross Project
 

Update: We fixed all the pictures on one build thread but it's way too much work to fix them on all threads, including this one. Sorry. Anyway you can now see a thread with ALL the pictures at http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...s-project.html


Hi, my name's Paul Eddleston and I just joined this forum so please excuse the multiple posts while I catch up on the project's first week of activity. There shouldn't have been much action yet but read on for that story.


November 26th

We finally sourced a donor for our RallyCross project car, a nice 84 911 Carrera with 100K on the clock. Though we haven't receievd the car yet it is supposedly in great mechanical condition with just a few minor cosmetic defects. Sounds perfect.

The plan is to campaign the car in Detroit SCCA Rallycross program while slowly developing it into a dirt monster. The Detroit program runs yea-round so this car is going to see plenty of snow and ice as well as dirt. To help with development we'll also throw the car at some local autocrosses and track days but the main focus is RallyCross. We have been competing with our Subaru Ouback since the program began some six years ago so it's time for a new challenge. As we are fairly new to the marque we will be asking lots of questions on this forum to aid in the development so brace yourself for some pretty dumb ones.

Here's some pictures of the car from the eBay ad:

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...03717043_n.jpg

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...23982391_n.jpg

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...79237083_n.jpg

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...20985878_n.jpg

and what inspires us:

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...98380205_n.jpg

and one of the car it is replacing:

http://www.teamilluminata.com/Racing...n/DSCN6348.JPG


The first event is December 8th so, assuming the thing runs when it gets here we will have a bit of mad prep to do. Because of the specs of the BRAID rally wheels we will but running it is already out of Stock class and into Prepared where, coincidentally, it will be up against a couple of 944s. Top of the list is to get some snow tires mounted to the wheels and slap those on, then some number panels and hopefull try to lift it. Stupid question #1: can one easily lift a 911 by indexing the torsion bars? An inch would be nice but anything would help as we are afarid of ripping the front spoiler off at stock ride height. We may get away with removing the lip spoiler beforehand though that is technically illegal. I dont think the competiton will mind unless we beat them.

We also have to add an AC compressor to be within the Prepared rules. Apparantly one of the previous owners removed the AC from the car so we might be looking for a used broken unit if anyone has one. Of course, if we can prove it was a factory delete then we can run without it.


November 28th

Woke up to a nice shiny (not) new car in my drive. Time to check it over and take it for a test drive.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...44906086_n.jpg



Uh oh! Everything was looking good till we took a 90 right at a light. There was a loud BANG from the rear. We pulled over and found the rear suspension collapsed! The left a little more than the right. Great. Now I have another broken car.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...66329470_n.jpg

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...29941602_n.jpg

We only put 3 miles on it before this happened and were going really slow the whole way. What do you think, broke a torsion bar?

Could this have been a contributing factor?

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...01347793_n.jpg


Didn't expect to be doing this today :(

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...95915655_n.jpg


Disconnected the rear anti roll bar and I can move the left rear wheel up with little resistance. Can't move the right side so left torsion bar must be broken or out of its socket.

Left side is green end. Right side has a cap on it. Does this look right?

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...30723704_n.jpg

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...81793714_n.jpg

I guess it's still safe to drive till September 13th, at least in Virginia.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...45520520_n.jpg



November 29th

Success! My car no longer has a broken rear torsion bar (in it).

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...12349674_n.jpg


That torsion bar be broken. It broke at the inner splines. You can see where the crack began and propagated out in a spiral. Very impressive.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...69788008_n.jpg


That's the broken end still in the torsion tube. I guess I'm supposed to bash it out from the other side once I remove the other bar. No rust or anything. I would even say "pristine"

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...06410320_n.jpg




Used my fancy iPhone angle find app to determine the inclination of the non broken torsion plate. 34.8*. Is that correct?

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...54009384_n.jpg


The good torsion bar. Ready to be pulled. I think I am now one with this car :) Green on the left, blue on the right. Is this significant?

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...08060734_n.jpg


Lets twist again, like we did last...........oh, never mind.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...10575677_n.jpg


Couple of zip ties, JB Weld and some duct tape and it'll be good as new. (Its'a rally thing)

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...58352500_n.jpg


Now I'm off to Dearborn to pick up some used torsion bars in case the rally-fix doesn't work. Ford ones will work right? But first I think I've earned a nice cup of tea.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...92360190_n.jpg


Tomorrow we slap it back together. Saturday we figure out how to work the radio.

December 1st

I picked up some local used torsion bars and slapped the thing back together yesterday. I also took the opportunity to lift it a bit, maybe a bit too much. Ended up with 28" to top of fender in the rear. 27.7 in the front. That's about 2-3 inch lift. God knows what my alignment numbers are but it drives OK.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...96861422_n.jpg


I made a funky tool for the camber and caster adjusters. One ratcheting wrench, one bolt and two nuts. Worked great.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...70068537_n.jpg


Reversing lights work. Car settled 1/2" after a few test miles. I think I want to raise the front a little more yet.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...47300371_n.jpg


I didn't get a baseline height for the rear as it collapsed but in this picture it looks quite high already. Stock height do you think?

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...27269377_n.jpg


We also removed the front chin spoiler before it gets torn off. It's for sale ;)

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...37582976_n.jpg


Found these on the door step when I got home.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...05543305_n.jpg


Oh my. Maybe these and some rally tires will make the lift seem less silly.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...01385250_n.jpg


And 12mm spacers for the rear. This way we can run the same spec wheels all round.


http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...12500742_n.jpg


Now I can get back to the important stuff like the radio.

New boots going on last night.



http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...42316818_n.jpg


We lifted the front another 1/2" yesterday so now we are are at 27.5" front and rear. I measured available suspension droop at 2-3 inches.

We also replaced a sealed beam headlight and the wipers and put the rockers back on. Next we'll try and get baseline weight and dyno pull and find some longer wheel studs so we can run the 12mm spacers in the rear. It really needs them.



http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...92364903_n.jpg



http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...30599409_n.jpg



http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...65275220_n.jpg



http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...69464478_n.jpg



I drove it home from the shop last night. Handling with the 195/65 Winterforce snow tires is, er, interesting to say the least. Maybe an alignment will help.

Welcome. :cheers:

Unconventional today (at least here), but John Buffum's rallying exploits were one of the things that got me interested in 911s back in the '70s.

Have a friend in Boston who's taken over a stillborn Canadian rally project in a Euro Carrera 3.0.

And I dabbled on dirt with my '68 back circa 1980-1 when I was interested in trying the Pro Rally thing. Settled on sticking to the pavement......... But it's a blast.

Enjoy!

Thanks guys. Appreciate the encouragement.

Thanks for sharing!

This looks like a cool project. Question-did the used t-bars go in just for temporary usage, or have you researched and landed on a specific size? It seems to me, springs/shocks will make or break this car's fun and success.

I haven't researched the ideal torsoin bar but from my Subaru Experience something around stock spring rates with better damping seemed to work..

I hope you have plans for a solid skid plate under the back of that thing. I could just see some wayward soda can knocking off an oil return tube and you kissing a $10,000 engine goodbye.

Love the euro-rally stuff of youtube. :jumper:

Now wait a sec.... I just fired up the google and found why that name braid looked familiar. Yep....I'm on to you know. :roflmao:

http://www.braidusa.com/Wheels/Comp/BZ/BZ.htm

Paul, is that you?

It's all becoming clearer. . . . :jumper:

http://www.teamilluminata.com/Racing/racing.htm


....but do you know how to use your tools? :eek:

....and regarding your chin spoiler....It was not put there by the factory, so you are good. You don't even have proof that the dealership put it on. It was an afterthought added after it landed here at any rate. No tail, no chin. That's how it was.

and regarding the A/C compressor. :D:D:D:D I'll trade you your chin spoiler for my A/C compressor. Deal? :jumper: Seriously.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Team-I...772?ref=stream

I think you stock suspension will be more than fine for rally cross... if you would doing stages I would suggestion remote resoviors as long stages will overheat a set of stock shocks, and handling with deminish

A Pcar has always made sense to me for rally for the simple fact that suspension wise you have tons of adjustments allowable from the factory. When I get around to a project very similar to this I would set the toe neutral, dial in a fair amount of positive caster, and set the camber more neutral as well. tuning and testing will sort it all out

Also having swingarms in the rear > IRS for the fact that the suspension travel of a swingarm doesn't affect the camber angle as badly as IRS will . The key will be tuning the camber of the front wheel to ensure the rough roughs and bumps don't equal wtf handling. I think your diaboilical handling right now might be due to a fair amount of postive camber achieved when the high was raised

Can't wait to hear how the first runs go!!!

You're scaring me. :crying: That's probably a good thing. I'm surprised how much crucial equipment is place in vulnerable locations on these cars, namely oil lines and coolers. For a car that has no fender liners there's an awful lot of valuable parts in there. Skid plates and mud flaps were always on the menu but now so are fender liners and rocker panel protection. I'll be taking to my fab man soon. I may look into rerouting them oil lines one day and perhaps relocationg the oil cooler to a less vulnerable location. I assume quite a few people have done this. I'm beginning to feel a bit spolied by our Subaru rally wagon now. All the fuel and brake lines on that car pass through the passenger cabin. I guess that's unusual.

To be fair, RallyCross is not as hard on a car as proper stage rally so I probably don't need to get carried away with in this area but there is always that odd rock or two.