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3.2 Owner, requiring advice on performance

Old 10-18-2012, 03:35 PM
  #31  
GTgears
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Originally Posted by Lorenfb View Post
"That is 20whp over the published stock CRANK HP for a US car,"

O.K. so, based on the simple relationship between timing advance and HP
(4 HP change for every 1 degree of timing change), the timing in the chip was
advanced about 5 degrees over stock. Hardly any great achievement, since the
guys with the 911SCs knew that 30 years ago and just had to loosen the distributor
and slightly move it. Obviously like now, they had to use a higher octane to maintain
the engine's margin of safety.

So much for 'performance' tuning!
Never said it was rocket science. The difference between my 3.2l Carrera and its ECU and those 911SC guys is that every two years I roll through smog without a second thought. How many "my 911SC just failed emissions" threads go up on the bird board a month? I wonder how many of them have their timing altered from stock and now have to go back and futz with it to get through smog testing. I'm prefectly happy to keep my chip, my hp, and just drive my car...
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Old 10-18-2012, 04:11 PM
  #32  
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The best thing I ever did to my 3.2's was to install a mass flow sensor. I NOTICEABLE difference response, and over all power. I'm not sure if they are still available but the installation is about an hour and very easy.
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Old 10-18-2012, 04:23 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Norske View Post
The best thing I ever did to my 3.2's was to install a mass flow sensor. I NOTICEABLE difference response, and over all power. I'm not sure if they are still available but the installation is about an hour and very easy.
I read that article a couple of years back before I ever owned mine. Definitely seem like a worthwhile mod if one planned on doing any of the usual bolts ons and wanted to maximize the gains.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:09 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by porsche0nut View Post
Car looks incredible! Fantastic shots. Nice steering wheel too, is that the Turbo S wheel? Much nicer than the horizontal framed version.

Are those 7" and 8" wheels? They look wider than mine - and I like it!

Any plans to lower the car a little? 1/2" drop would do wonders to the stance
Yes, I have done some slight and I believe tasteful mod the the vehicle. Basically I put 7" on the front in lie of the std. 6". I then put on some 3/4" spacers all round followed by a polish in lieu of the anodised finish. The back are std 8" polished.

The car came factory ordered with the turbo steering wheel, internal door handles and a few other minor cosmetic pieces. I am the third owner of the April build 1989 model . I figured that because it was the end of the line they probably added the steering wheel etc to move the parts from the factory?

Anyway I like the wheel much better than the std version.

The previous owner (an air line pilot, really guy to) tried his best and spent squillions to get the AC to work. However to no avail. I also tried, but in the end said F it and removed most of the AC parts (just dead mass). I also removed the rear wiper and wiper motor.

The only other thing I did was replace the Cat with bypass or hollow pipe.

The original owner was a dentist who kept till 60 km, then the pilot till 108 km now me. I have had it for 8-9 years and put 9000 k's total is just under 120,000 km. I have not done much on it because I have been working OS for the past 18 years, and I also have few muscle cars as well to play with.

So to re invigorate my desire for it, I though I would pep it up a bit (so I hope the chip does for me).
It goes okay, when you take over over 4/5 odd k's but below it's ok, compared to modern day performance car if you know what I mean.

Actually the previous owner had both a 993 and 3.2, however he decided to sell the 993 first. I looked at the car 12 month before prior to buying it. However, we could not meet on a price. Then I looked at some 10 others 3.2 and 993 and almost 12 months later I want back and said, I would take it! naturally for the price I wanted : ) He'd sold it twice in that time, but they could not come up with the money. Cars are more expensive here in Aust. We get shafted big time, but thankfully that gap is reducing in some markets.

It's mainly the Europeans that that try to F us over. But thankful the gap is closing on the initial up front charge. Now they are concentrating on the service charges. Euor cars are good but value for money reliability bang for your buck the Japanese kill them, in my opinion.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:10 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Norske View Post
The best thing I ever did to my 3.2's was to install a mass flow sensor. I NOTICEABLE difference response, and over all power. I'm not sure if they are still available but the installation is about an hour and very easy.
Sounds really good, however can you provide more detail please, Cheers.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:53 PM
  #36  
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"The best thing I ever did to my 3.2's was to install a mass flow sensor. I NOTICEABLE difference response"

Actually, no independent testing of an air mass sensor by itself without the
timing tweaking has really been done. Once the other variable ('pushed' timing)
is eliminated, that mod basically provides little to no benefit. All the testing
is done with the air mass sensor and a chip, the consumer really not knowing
what the true effects of the new chip are.

What the air mass sensor only provides is a greater profit margin for the seller,
i.e. now the mod package is not just a $300 chip but a complete package over
$1000. So now by just 'pushing' the timing, to the consumer it appears that
the air mass sensor made significant improvements.

Do a search on the Rennlist 964 forum as it was evaluated there.

Last edited by Lorenfb; 10-19-2012 at 01:24 AM.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:17 AM
  #37  
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Guys, put a wong chip and a clean O2 sensor in it and you are good to go. Make sure your plugs are fresh and your air filter is clean and you really won't need to waste your money on modern MAF conversions and the like. Even though it's fun to see Loren's head explode now and then, I gotta back him up on this.
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Old 10-19-2012, 04:33 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Lorenfb View Post
"The best thing I ever did to my 3.2's was to install a mass flow sensor. I NOTICEABLE difference response"

Actually, no independent testing of an air mass sensor by itself without the
timing tweaking has really been done. Once the other variable ('pushed' timing)
is eliminated, that mod basically provides little to no benefit. All the testing
is done with the air mass sensor and a chip, the consumer really not knowing
what the true effects of the new chip are.

What the air mass sensor only provides is a greater profit margin for the seller,
i.e. now the mod package is not just a $300 chip but a complete package over
$1000. So now by just 'pushing' the timing, to the consumer it appears that
the air mass sensor made significant improvements.

Do a search on the Rennlist 964 forum as it was evaluated there.
Dear sir, I respect your input on my quest of a little more power from my 3.2. Though, I do believe that your under the impression that I and others are simply wasting our money on the chip change?
If this is the case, then why are there so many positive posts on these chips? Surly they all can't be delusional?

May I please ask you specifically, what do you believe I should be doing to gain a little bit more. Realistically, one would need around 7 - 10% extra pwr / torque to feel a difference.
Also, and I'm not being rude here, but how are you so sure these chips, air sensors and or exhausts are waste of time?

I ordered the 98 RON octane chip based on what I believe will provided a 3 - 4 degree advancement to the timing. Hence, based on the timing advancement, do you believe I will feel a difference.

Also, and please correct me if I'm wrong. However you believe I could achieve the performance increase by just advancing the timing myself, without a new chip?

Your posts are making me question myself. I'm a fairly common sense type of guy and I'm qualified in both mechanical and structural engineering and have worked in the technical field for close to 30 years. So I consider myself reasonable competent technically.
I'm also a realist, and I'm working on the theory that the factory leave a level of margin to cater for the lowest denominator, who may do wrong with their equipment.

Thank you in advance.

Kind regards.
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:55 AM
  #39  
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"Your posts are making me question myself. I'm a fairly common sense type of guy and I'm qualified in both mechanical and structural engineering and have worked in the technical field for close to 30 years."

Again, please read this thread:https://rennlist.com/forums/911-foru...-the-myth.html

There are technical references quoted, e.g. Bosch, besides the actual dyno
tests I was personally involved with posted there. The results there with
respect to the relationship between timing and horsepower continually repeat
on other 911 3.2 engines evaluated on a dyno after that writeup.

Additionally, read here; http://www.systemsc.com/tests.htm, as this will provide
further insights into chips and the effects they have.

If you are technically capable as you indicate, you should understand what
was presented and do your own research by starting with the references provided
in the post.

"May I please ask you specifically, what do you believe I should be doing to gain a little bit more."

If I were in a quest for more HP, I would do as Ed Hughes (find his threads) did with his
911 3.2. If not, just tweak the suspension, take a DE class and enjoy car as is.

Last edited by Lorenfb; 10-19-2012 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 10-19-2012, 02:22 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Lorenfb View Post
If I were in a quest for more HP, I would do as Ed Hughes (find his threads) did with his 911 3.2.
Originally Posted by Ed Hughes View Post
I went through what you are asking in stages. I saw a nice bump with B&B 1 5/8" headers, and a Wong chip setup for 93 octane.
So if you were on a quest for more HP, you would put a Steve Wong chip in your car...

Q.E.D.
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Old 10-19-2012, 02:49 PM
  #41  
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Old 10-19-2012, 02:51 PM
  #42  
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OK, here is my journey to HP nirvana, or at least as far as I needed, or was prepared to go.

https://rennlist.com/forums/911-foru...ild-redux.html

Be sure and click the video link at post 369....about 1:15 in, is Ruby's Song. It still brings a smile to my face.

Besides the airplane I built back in 2001-02, building this motor was my next favorite mechanical acheivement.
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Old 10-19-2012, 05:01 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by rachnath View Post
Dear sir, I respect your input on my quest of a little more power from my 3.2. Though, I do believe that your under the impression that I and others are simply wasting our money on the chip change?
..........
Thank you in advance.

Kind regards.
Loren is not allowed to advertise here, but let's just say he knows somewhat of that witch he speaks. http://www.systemsc.com/

This in no way means he is right about chips, it just means he knows a thing or two about the breadboard it's plugged into.
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:54 PM
  #44  
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Well, the reality is that if a 3.2 Motronic owner wants to advance their timing, to gain power, and does it with proper octane, compression, bore, etc, then a reprogrammed chip is the only way it can be done.
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:15 PM
  #45  
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Congrats '89 is a great and very collectible 911. It offers a real Porsche experience with that up dated trans axle.

By investing in that new trans, Porsche said to the world the 911 was here to stay.

If you want to demist you can't use headers unless they have heater boxes, be sure to get the right ones.

I noticed a gain with SSIs but there may be more to be had as the previous member said.

Chips can lead to problems IMHO, i bought Autothority for my '86 and took it out after a few years.

With the chip, my rev limiter did not limit at times when accelerating hard which can be real bad for the big end bolts.

It also began to hunt at idle, very, very annoying, i pulled it out, problems went away and barely noticed a performance change. Advancing timing with chips can lead to issues especially with air cooled cars w/o knock sensors.

Don't waste money on K&N air filter either, stock filters better and they chirp.

If i were you i would carefully lighten the car for example with fiberglass bumper spoilers, remove the bumpers / bumper shocks, manual aero mirrors, etc.. and you will see a performance gain.
The charcoal canister can be thrown away for instance, among a lot of other stuff,
leave your spare tire, jack and compressor in the garage and get AAA.

keep the tool kit though..

I lightened my 3.2 to 2540lbs without removing a square inch of stock interior.
It weighed around 2800lbs. when i bought it.

Handles, brakes better and has spring in its step.

Just be careful parallel parking with those fiberglass bumpers.
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