ESK

Hello,

I just found this and the CT valley board (where I originally posted this topic but there seems to be little activity there). I have been mulling over what to do with my very clean but somewhat dated 1977 911S. I would be intersted in what other owners think. First some condensed history: I purchased the car in 1985 with 73,000 miles on it and currently have 110,000. It has enjoyed being my second vehicle since then and has been babied, at least by me. It was purchased new in Sunnyvale CA and remained in CA until our move to CT last year. The original owner was a women who apparently spent a lot of money on all sorts of upgrades which has always puzzled me as I think she was only several thousand dollars short of a turbo. The car is sienna metallic with a full leather tan interior including original recaro sport seats, Bamburg recording cassette radio, auto heat, rear wiper, front headlight squirters, fogs, trombone oil cooler, sunroof but no AC. She had a valve job and the thermal reactors removed at approx 50,000 miles. The timing was also restored to pre-emmissions settings and frankly the little bugger is quite zinggy (sp). I think I have driven the car less than 500 miles in the last 7 or 8 years (kid #3 just arrived this past summer). I have read all the horror stories of 2.7 engines but this one seems fine. Minor oil seepage/consumption but essentially very clean/dry underside of engine. The car still looks great both inside and out, not new but maybe 5 years old instead of 25.

OK, I've clearly have gotten carried away but my horrible dillema is the following. With an Odyssey and a Camry as daily drivers, I really appreciate having something special to toy around in every now and then. I have been thinking of either upgrading to something newer or sinking some $ into the 77. I figure a nice rebuild of the 2.7, perhaps with webers and different cams could be fun. But then of course the tranny should likely be taken care of. The paint is still presentable but it would be an opportunity to put on SC flares and upgrade the suspension. Perhaps a Carrera-look knock off? But this will cost me, probably 20K by the time its over. That money would go a long way towards a C2 or 993. But those cars will depreciate, probably drastically over the next 5 years. ( I should also mention that the property tax on the '77 is $16 this year!) More importantly, the newer cars are more complex and could possibly be plagued with problems (I have heard that the C2's have a lot of bugs) Could a built/restored 77 give 95% of the fun of a late model car on the street? The wild card is that in my heart I think I really want a cab. I have never driven a cab ( I've heard they are noticibly more flexible) much less a newer porsche. Sorry to bore but if anyone has some helpful advice I would aprreciate it.


Thanks

Bill Gregory

ESK,

First off, consider whatever you do to your existing engine may have emissions considerations here in CT. Maybe it's already old enough to be exempt, but you should look into that before deciding to proceed on an engine upgrade path.

This morning I posted this in a similar thread:

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There are a finite set of well known issues with the early 964's. Assuming relevant ones have been addressed (cylinder leakage, for example, isn't rampant,and may not be applicable to a particular car), 964's make fine daily drivers. No question they are more complex than the previous 911 series, but they are a more modern update too.

I think some of the thought that they require more maintenance is left over from the early to late 90's when the maintenance community was still learning what was needed to maintain the new systems introduced on the 964.
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The prices on 964's and 993's have come down alot in the past year, and there's a thought that the 964's may be be towards the bottom of their depreciation curve. 1995 993 prices are now approaching where 964's were a year to a year and a half ago. So, that said, if you want an investment and are worried about depreciation, don't buy any model car (unless you get a great price on a special model - see the Bobby Rahal interview in this months Pano, about the one that got away, for example).

One option you didn't mention was dropping a larger engine into your existing 911. A popular choice is to drop a 3.6L engine in (Rennlister Bill Verburg has a 1993 3.6L engine for sale that's been prepped to drop into an earlier 911 chassis. Ad is in this months Pano or search here and send him an email). You might then want to upgrade your torsion bars, maybe shocks, and brakes, and you'd have one exciting machine (big emissions-compliant engine and light chassis).

ESK

Thanks for the input Bill. I should say that now that the car is over 25 years old, it is already smog exempt in CT. This is nice as in the past (in CA) smog exemption is model year '73 and earlier only. Your idea of a 3.6 is interesting but my gut feeling is that I'd go to a newer chassis before I do something that drastic. I would prefer to keep the original case anyways but maybe that isn't considered important by Porsche nuts (I know the corvette community is obsessive compulsive about the subject)?

Thanks again

Chris Martin

In all honesty, a 77 911 is not the most desirable car so I dont this having the original motor in it will hurt you. Actually, if you installed a SC or Carrera motor the "value" might go up since they are more desirble motors.

I think we all go through what you are talking about at some time or another. It's hard to let an old love go, even if to upgrade to a new one. However, the money you put into your 77 will not come back should you choose to sell. If $$ is even an issue I would think hard about investing 20k into a 77 911 that you dont plan to keep for a long time. In this market you can get a 964 for that or a little more if you look hard enough and get a little lucky. The newer cars not only have more HP, but abs, airbags, A/C and so on. I think they are much easier cars to live with on a daily basis. But, like you said they are more complex and have their own issues.

If it were my $$ I would buy a 964 or 993 (depending on budget) now as they are cheap and not likely to go down much more in price, at least for some time. If you can, keep the 77 until the spring when it should sell for a little more. Plus, you can drive both cars to see you really like the "old" 911 or the "new" one better.

By the way, your 77 sounds like a very nice car!

ESK

Thanks Chris. Yes I realize the mid 70's cars have a bad reputation but frankly, aside from the 2.7 the rest of the car is nearly identical to a SC. The 77 had some minor improvements over 76 re 915 tranny and clutch engagement as well as aluminum front torsion bar cross member and the dash vent-yawn. Frankly, these cars are huge improvements over the 73 and earlier cars which have a much stronger following. I was hoping someone would weigh in on cab vs coupe. I do not plan on racing or even autocrossing. Just want to cruise around and have a few grins whcih gets me back to $. Yes, I know for 80K I can have a huge smile on my face but perhaps for 1/4 that things can be almost the same, particularly if we're talking driving only on weekends and did I forget to say how delightful the weather is out here in CT-NOT!Probably the best approach for me is to drive a couple varieties of the newer cars to see how different they really are.
Thanks for the opinions.

GratefulJED

For whatever it's worth, I would scrap my 82 sunroof coupe and my 98 tiptronic cab for at least a 993 sunroof six speed coupe.

Chris Martin

I agree completely. I am sure I will "upgrade" some time in the not too distant future, but I really still enjoy my SC. I cant say it's perfect, or really even close, but it suits me just fine. If I had the money I would buy a 993 (are they any out there without sunroofs?) and be done with it for a while.

A local PCA member recently installed a Carrera 3.2 in his 77 (I think) and loves the car all over again. I have thought about this for my car if/when the 3.0 decides to retire. I like that I know my car and another car could be a new can of worms. Enough of my rambling. Enjoy your car, I am sure it beats dring the Camry to blow off some steam!

ESK

NM98CAB


JD,

Could you elaborate why you would prefer a 993 coupe to your cab? Does the 82 have a better feel than your 98? Have you driven a 993 coupe?

Thanks