MillenniumFalcon

Well, I've been chasing a wandering hot idle for a while now, and I happened upon something interesting today- like so many others on here, my injectors are a little loose (they can be rocked very slightly back-and-forth by hand). As I was sitting there watching my idle slightly hunt around, I grabbed the number 4 & 5 injectors and pulled up hard on them. My idle instantly evened out and the engine was sooo much smoother. I sprayed flammable stuff right on the injectors, and this definitely affected my idle on more than half the injectors.

I'm going to change out the injector o-rings and injector holder o-rings. I know I'll have to grind away the factory staking and re-stake them in, but what I am wondering is whether after I do this, and I should later down the road decide to replace my injectors, will the injectors just pull out and leave behind the injector holder cups, without disturbing any of the staking? I 'm trying to avoid grinding on the intakes any more than I have to...

While I have the injectors out, I'd like also to back flush them, but I can't find any tech articles regarding how to do this- I know that you shouldn't spray anything but fuel into the injectors, or you could damage the seals in them- has anyone cleaned their own injectors?

Another discovery was that I have no continuity between the electrical terminals on my WUR, and it also would not hold any vacuum during testing- so the WUR is toast. I'll have to do a system pressure test, and I hope that it has failed to warm running mode so that I can just leave it in there and not replace it.

Another thing I was wondering about was my head studs- I took a photo of the base of one of the studs, and was wondering if there is anyone out there who is familiar with the magnesium cases who could look at the pic and tell me whether that is the way the stock case looks, or whether someone has put an insert into the case- is there a little lip cast into the case at the base of the studs? Any help appreciated- thanks.

theiceman

make sure when you reaplce the orings you replace the holders too. you should be able to grind and restake no problem several times. I did mine once and have never had an issue .. i would not try "backflushing injectors" as you may damage them .. there is a spring in their that opens at a certain psi. I wouldnt mess with them unles syou send them out to be profesionally done and balanced. Sorry cant help with the case question .. i have an SC

race911

Hard to tell on the photo of the case whether that's a slightly corroded Timesert sticking out there. Let's say it is. I always made sure they were countersunk and flush. But I've taken apart dozens of engines where they were installed haphazardly, and they had lasted for tens of thousands of miles.

Ed Hughes

Send them to www.witchhunter.com for cleaning & testing. Remarkably quick turnaround.

MillenniumFalcon

Iceman- thanks, I'm going to order up 6 of those holders.

Ken- thanks, I hope the case hasn't had inserts done, because I have one soft head stud and that would probably mean that an insert has pulled out, which would probably mean that my case is then toast.

Ed- thanks, at $47 for a new injector, spending $21 each plus round trip shipping is going to be a tough call, especially if a few of them come up unsalvageable. What a great resource- thanks for posting that.

MillenniumFalcon

While investigating a broken door window regulator, I took a few pic's- here is the reason why looking at the bottom of the doors during pre-inspection gives you little indication of what they look like inside...

Top pic is the underside of the door. Bottom pic is the inside of the bottom of the door, where the bottom of the door meets the outer skin- deep rust underneath the seam sealer.

mfyoung1086

There should be no reason you need to send the injectors to WA have them cleaned and flow tested, CIS injection was not uncommon, and these injectors don't differ that much from the run of the mill VW shizz floating around. You shouldn't have a problem finding a local shop to do this for you. IMO I would call up a good VW shop and ask them if they know anyone they would recommend.

Or if you are willing to take the time to learn, I would go the megasquirt route, and put real FI on the car

I've actually had this crazy idea in the back of my mind to build a SS 3.2l convert it to megasquirt and boost it......

Ed Hughes

Ok, I forgot CIS injectors are so cheap. At that price, I'd replace and be done. Price Motronic injectors, and you'll see why guys like Witch Hunter are around.

MillenniumFalcon

Ed- yeah, that Motronic stuff is pretty outrageous...I guess i should be glad I'm dealing with a system that's not quite a work of art...

Young- I'm going to ask around town to see if any of the VW or Saab shops are interested in cleaning the injectors for CHEAP. If not, I'll check them and replace whatever needs replacing.

Here's one for the guys over 40: What does it mean when you find two holes drilled through your gas pedal, at the top and bottom of the pedal? Hint- it's a clear indication of the life this car has lived, and why it's been so neglected...


Question:

If I want to remove the entire CIS system with intake tubes in order to inspect the seals, rubber sleeves, isolation mounts and gaskets, will I be able to get everything out through the engine compartment without dropping the engine? I know it'll be a PITA, but I don't currently have provisions for lifting the car high enough for an engine drop right now.

Resource:

Has anyone bought CIS rebuilt components from this guy (below)? His price on a rebuilt WUR and fuel distributor is very low compared to others, and he gives a 24 month warranty... seems very reasonable to me:

http://www.specialtauto.com/porsche-parts/index.html

I had to block off the heater for now, until I can figure a way to rebuild the heater motor-it's a flopping mess and I don't want a fire back there... so I bought a flexible pipe cap at Home Depot for $4- it has a ribbed inside and comes with a shiny clamp. Works perfectly, and doesn't look too out of place. Sure beats the price of a heater block-off plate.. but it's only temporary

mfyoung1086

Yeah any shop that still touches 80's euro cars should know someone, I would start VW because they tend to have the most numbers on the road, plus saab hasn't used CIS since the 99 and first years of the 900, and there are not a lot of those on the road anymore... Most Saab guys are more familar with APC boxes, and trionic systems than CIS injection

theiceman

Yes you can certainly remove your entire CIS to work on it. I lowered the engine by a couple of inches by putting a jack under it and taking out the rear engine mount bolts and slowly lowered it. You should disconnet the shift coupler to take away any strain on that and just slowly lower it keeping an eye on everything. No big deal really. Took me 90 minutes to remove start to finish and had no instructions and had never done it before.

i took my time and cleaned everything but could do the whole thing start to finish in a weekend now if i wanted too. Not difficult you just need to be organized.

MillenniumFalcon

Iceman- That is really great news, and thanks for sharing your pics. It looks like you managed to pull out the airbox with the intake tubes still attached?

Also, the are some paint markings on my injector hoses and fuel distributor that indicate they have been pulled before, and at first glance it appears that they are not in order where they bolt up to the fuel distributor. Yours are in a certain "order" (see right side of fuel distributor for 4-5-6), mine aren't in that order. Obviously, it isn't in ignition firing order...I wonder whether this makes a difference in a CIS system since it's continuous? Wondering if I should change mine around?

Pretty excited- I found new Bosch injectors at Autohaus for $36.50, so I went ahead and just picked up a new set. If I can get a rebuilt WUR for $250, I'll have the CIS system mostly squared away.

theiceman

as you point CIS it doesnt matter as all injectors are spraing continuously .. but you want it to look corect also right ? i would change them .. all you need are some copper or aluminum sealing washers to do the job right. i have mor epics to if you are interested. I was actually repalceing my air box. yes everything came out in one piece
I replaced all the rubber sleeves and all the gaskets too. i should have posted that pic too.

if you are pulling the CIS out definitely replace the oil pressure switch, the throttle bushings and the stat o ring.( my bushings were half gone ) and the crancase breather gasket.

My new airbox had the plenum inside .. very nice ...

PS got all my parts at the dealer .. Suncoast in Oregon .. great guys and unbelieveable prices for OE parts.

oh by the way in that pic i put the throtle plate back together wrong ... what a pain in the ***.. had to take it out again later..

MillenniumFalcon

[Edit- ordering an internal thermostat O-ring] I just ordered the throttle linkage shaft bushings & the breather gasket and oil pressure sender. My throttle bushings are completely gone- nothing there at all...

Thanks for the pic's. I see you changed out the air flow metering plate seals as well? I guess I'll have to order those through Porsche.

I found another resource, although whatever the cost is, it's out of the question for me at present- this guy makes complete CIS injection stainless steel braided fuel hose harnesses (I have no idea what the cost is):

http://www.j2precisionhose.com/estor...&cat=72&page=1

I appreciate all the info and pic's shared to date- everything helps. How did we do this before the internet?

MillenniumFalcon

While I'm waiting on all the parts I need to pull the CIS system, I've started working on the 2 wheels that I recently purchased from a fellow rennlister... I've read all the Fuchs threads I could find, and I'm going to paint the centers satin black and do a "brushed" finish on the lips of these 16x6 wheels.

The threads talk about needing to do a few applications of the Easy-off to get the anodizing off, but nobody mentioned how long you would leave this stuff on for an "application". A couple of hours using the "blue can" didn't yield any results, so I'm going to leave it on overnight. How long did you guys leave the oven cleaner on for?