Is "upgrade" to 993 a mistake?
06-28-2002, 07:51 AM
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Is "upgrade" to 993 a mistake?
...already kinda decided to trade my '87 Carrera sunroof coupe for a 993. The guys on the 993 board are of course very commited and enthusiastic about their choice. BUT...I'm also getting some rumblings about reliability, computer-chip complexity, huge maint/repair costs, etc..any words of wisdom out there about the advisability of this swap?
06-28-2002, 08:57 AM
#2
Just my personal thoughts here, the 993 is the most refined and beautiful of the aircooled 911's. Any Porsche is gonna be more expensive to maintain that another vehicle of the same vintage, just due to the cost of the parts etc. Having gotten used to an '87 you probably don't want to go backward to an early one so a newer one makes sense to me. Good luck. 
06-28-2002, 08:58 AM
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Burt,
If you steer clear of the '95 993, you'll get into the line which is in pretty well shaken down. Fact of life, however, 993's are more complicated than your '87 (I used to have an '81SC for comparison). OBDII emissions, on one hand, limits the ability to tune chip parameters, and on the other hand, does allow users to plug into the chip to see limited data. The rear suspension is more complex than earlier 911's, and some mechanics may not understand how to work it (I ran into one independant shop whose owner told me that the rear camber couldn't be adjusted!). If you'll be taking a 993 on the track, you should ditch the hydraulic lifters and return to standard lifters. If you don't go on the track, hydraulic lifters are more maintenance free and good to have.
Like any auto decision, you need to closely examine why you want to upgrade. The '87-89, some would say, is the last of the best. Some would also say that about the 993's, prior to the current 996's, as the ultimate evolution of the air cooled 911. If you find a copy of Excellence with a 993 market update, Bruce Anderson usually pretty succinctly nets out problem areas and strengths of each model. As I recall, he really likes the 993 line.
If you steer clear of the '95 993, you'll get into the line which is in pretty well shaken down. Fact of life, however, 993's are more complicated than your '87 (I used to have an '81SC for comparison). OBDII emissions, on one hand, limits the ability to tune chip parameters, and on the other hand, does allow users to plug into the chip to see limited data. The rear suspension is more complex than earlier 911's, and some mechanics may not understand how to work it (I ran into one independant shop whose owner told me that the rear camber couldn't be adjusted!). If you'll be taking a 993 on the track, you should ditch the hydraulic lifters and return to standard lifters. If you don't go on the track, hydraulic lifters are more maintenance free and good to have.
Like any auto decision, you need to closely examine why you want to upgrade. The '87-89, some would say, is the last of the best. Some would also say that about the 993's, prior to the current 996's, as the ultimate evolution of the air cooled 911. If you find a copy of Excellence with a 993 market update, Bruce Anderson usually pretty succinctly nets out problem areas and strengths of each model. As I recall, he really likes the 993 line.
06-28-2002, 10:03 AM
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Burt, I plan to be in your very same situation in about a year or so. After I sell my house, I'll use a little equity, sell my '87 911 and get a 993. My biggest fear is being Porsche-less during the search for a 993. Let me know what you do to combat this withdrawal.
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Superdave312 (07-24-2020)
06-28-2002, 11:52 AM
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its not a 993 and a 87, but I have a 2000 996 and a 1988 911, and I tell everyone, if I had to choose and have only one, I would keep the 1988. It is just simply more fun to drive. It is not as fast but more fun. check out the recent Excellence where they compare a GT2 to the RS. Much of the comparison will apply to the 993 and the 87 as well. Sports car Vrs Super Car. I have criven a 993 before and they are great cars, not quite the super car of the 996, so the difference will be a little less.
Without knowing you and our loves, you can't trust anyone else to make the choice, I tend to drive hard and slide the car around on the road and the 88 is more fun, partly because of the $$ involved, I can't afford to get another 996, but I could get another 1988.
some of the best advice I ever got was flip a coin, heads keep the 87 tails get the 993, and watch your reaction to the answer, it will either be joy or sorrow, that will tell you what to do....
Jim
Without knowing you and our loves, you can't trust anyone else to make the choice, I tend to drive hard and slide the car around on the road and the 88 is more fun, partly because of the $$ involved, I can't afford to get another 996, but I could get another 1988.
some of the best advice I ever got was flip a coin, heads keep the 87 tails get the 993, and watch your reaction to the answer, it will either be joy or sorrow, that will tell you what to do....
Jim
06-28-2002, 01:33 PM
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I've just recently purchased a '96 993 after owning an '80 SC for about 4 years (still have it). The 993 is a very different car from he earlier 911s. The maintainance costs are substantially higher. There can also be issues with the wiring harness ('95s), steering rack, exhaust valves, and rear engine seal leak problems.
Because of this, I would suggest purchasing your car from a P-Dealer. Get a warranty if at all possible. In my case I paid ~$4K for a 2 year 24K mile "bumper-to-bumper" warranty. I felt that if I was going to spend a rather large chunk of cash on my new toy, I'd sleep better if I had some insurance. BTW ~4 weeks after purchase I noticed the drivetrain was very noisy, and the rear engine seal seemed to be leaking. Yup... The valves need to be done and the rear engine seal replaced. Cost: ~$5K.
This SHOULD be covered under the warranty--and I'm getting that started now.
That said, I think the 993 is a much more fun car to drive! The power is awesome! The looks?--To die for! It is very different in feel, sound etc. So if you do decide to switch make sure to drive more than a couple 993s. My search took a couple of months, and I drove several cars (mostly trashed BTW) before finding mine.
In short, I've done it with no regrets so far... Do your reasearch and make your best deal. I do believe we are in a buyers market.
Cheers,
Chris
'80 SC For sale...
'96 993
Because of this, I would suggest purchasing your car from a P-Dealer. Get a warranty if at all possible. In my case I paid ~$4K for a 2 year 24K mile "bumper-to-bumper" warranty. I felt that if I was going to spend a rather large chunk of cash on my new toy, I'd sleep better if I had some insurance. BTW ~4 weeks after purchase I noticed the drivetrain was very noisy, and the rear engine seal seemed to be leaking. Yup... The valves need to be done and the rear engine seal replaced. Cost: ~$5K.
This SHOULD be covered under the warranty--and I'm getting that started now.That said, I think the 993 is a much more fun car to drive! The power is awesome! The looks?--To die for! It is very different in feel, sound etc. So if you do decide to switch make sure to drive more than a couple 993s. My search took a couple of months, and I drove several cars (mostly trashed BTW) before finding mine.
In short, I've done it with no regrets so far... Do your reasearch and make your best deal. I do believe we are in a buyers market.
Cheers,
Chris
'80 SC For sale...
'96 993
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Superdave312 (07-24-2020)
06-28-2002, 01:58 PM
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The 993 is more expensive to maintain without a doubt. The Carrera and SC's are great cars and loads of fun to drive, but the '96,'97, and '98 993's are the best air cooled cars Porsche has produced. Everything, including oil changes, tune-ups and parts are more expensive. The 993 has more power, a climate control that actually works,power steering, better braking, and a 6 speed gearbox that shifts smoothly and never crunches unlike the 915 and '87 5 speed G50.
Downside, recently replaced the clutch and flywheel ...total cost incl labor $3200, but after 48,000 miles it has been the only major repair.
If budjet allowed I would have an early, mid and late Porsche,(ok I have the early and the late...now I need to convince my wife we need an '87 somehow...)
Good luck!
Downside, recently replaced the clutch and flywheel ...total cost incl labor $3200, but after 48,000 miles it has been the only major repair.
If budjet allowed I would have an early, mid and late Porsche,(ok I have the early and the late...now I need to convince my wife we need an '87 somehow...)
Good luck!
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06-29-2002, 06:11 AM
#8
I have a 1995 993 with 62000 miles on it. I drive it as hard as i can on the road and the track. Never had any significant problems in 4 years - the steering rack was the only non standard service repair i've had to do.
For me, its the perfect companion. I love the looks and feel - it retains the character of the older cars with the reliability and modern tech. of the newer cars. The sound used to dissapoint me until I had the sports airbox fitted - now it sounds like a racing car at full throttle.
That said, all 911s are great. I was on a track last week and there was a 1987 911 with 193000 miles on it - i hitched a ride with him and the car went beautifully albeit more noisy and less steady (more fidgety) than mine.
Just my $0.02
Ajit.
For me, its the perfect companion. I love the looks and feel - it retains the character of the older cars with the reliability and modern tech. of the newer cars. The sound used to dissapoint me until I had the sports airbox fitted - now it sounds like a racing car at full throttle.
That said, all 911s are great. I was on a track last week and there was a 1987 911 with 193000 miles on it - i hitched a ride with him and the car went beautifully albeit more noisy and less steady (more fidgety) than mine.
Just my $0.02
Ajit.
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Superdave312 (07-24-2020)
06-29-2002, 12:29 PM
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Above it was written, “On the 993 board, there have been some rumblings about reliability, computer-chip complexity, huge maint/repair costs, etc.” Another post suggest changing out the hydraulic lifters for mechanical, others suggest staying away from the OBD I cars because of the wiring harness problems….”
Prior to the 993, I had a 80 SC all tricked out for the track, in Porsche Owners Club Class “I” Improved. The car worked well…I sold the car in 94 and didn’t come back to the Porsche ranks until 1999, with a 1997 993 coupe. On the track, the absolutely bone stock 993 with Kumho tires, was significantly quicker than the SC in spite of the stock suspension that had the car doing a little wallowing in and around corners (I fixed that with the 993 M030 RoW suspension option).
The SC had a raw flavor, no power steering, etc…but compared to the 993, there simply is no comparison. In the cabin, the look is nearly identical…but those huge 993 brakes, ABS, LSD, power steering, 100 extra HP, broad power band…I am not going back unless I run out of cash.
I replaced the clutch…with a light weight flywheel and a clutch. The Dual Mass flywheel was clunking…it did not fail, but I didn’t like the clunk. Other than that, 0 problems, 0 oil leaks. Get the 993, get a warranty if you can from the dealer. The Porsche dealer can provide you a 1 year warranty. They may not want to do it, but they can. Join the clun…and in the interim, post your questions on the 993 Board. They will be answered in short order.
Prior to the 993, I had a 80 SC all tricked out for the track, in Porsche Owners Club Class “I” Improved. The car worked well…I sold the car in 94 and didn’t come back to the Porsche ranks until 1999, with a 1997 993 coupe. On the track, the absolutely bone stock 993 with Kumho tires, was significantly quicker than the SC in spite of the stock suspension that had the car doing a little wallowing in and around corners (I fixed that with the 993 M030 RoW suspension option).
The SC had a raw flavor, no power steering, etc…but compared to the 993, there simply is no comparison. In the cabin, the look is nearly identical…but those huge 993 brakes, ABS, LSD, power steering, 100 extra HP, broad power band…I am not going back unless I run out of cash.
I replaced the clutch…with a light weight flywheel and a clutch. The Dual Mass flywheel was clunking…it did not fail, but I didn’t like the clunk. Other than that, 0 problems, 0 oil leaks. Get the 993, get a warranty if you can from the dealer. The Porsche dealer can provide you a 1 year warranty. They may not want to do it, but they can. Join the clun…and in the interim, post your questions on the 993 Board. They will be answered in short order.
06-29-2002, 04:36 PM
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Burt
And another thing...After I track prepped the '87, it was, as was said above, a little raw, but a blast to drive. Of course, the brakes needed better pads, cooling ducts, and occasionally new rotors, which required repacking the bearings. The torsion bars needed to be upgraded, and adjusting the height with those is no easy matter...The aftermarket sway bars were pretty expensive, but really helped...Valve adjustment was frequent. But the car was really tight on the track...and hard on the street, unfortunately. I couldn't find a way to have both.
The 993 just doesn't need all of this, and is more comfortable, faster, stops better, and has a much better shifting transmission. What would one expect for 2 generations of improvements. The '87 is a very attractive car, and does amazingly well for technology as old as it is. The 993 is still visceral, but much more technologically advanced, and as a result, an all around better performer with fewer modifications.
And another thing...After I track prepped the '87, it was, as was said above, a little raw, but a blast to drive. Of course, the brakes needed better pads, cooling ducts, and occasionally new rotors, which required repacking the bearings. The torsion bars needed to be upgraded, and adjusting the height with those is no easy matter...The aftermarket sway bars were pretty expensive, but really helped...Valve adjustment was frequent. But the car was really tight on the track...and hard on the street, unfortunately. I couldn't find a way to have both.
The 993 just doesn't need all of this, and is more comfortable, faster, stops better, and has a much better shifting transmission. What would one expect for 2 generations of improvements. The '87 is a very attractive car, and does amazingly well for technology as old as it is. The 993 is still visceral, but much more technologically advanced, and as a result, an all around better performer with fewer modifications.