Bad idea?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Bad idea?
To buy a car that does not run? The car is complete. The car is not local so I can only go by what the seller tells me. I'm told the car needs a new timing chain. Paint will be needed at some point. Seller says the car is straight, dent, and rust free. Interior looks pretty decent.
I'm a bit skeptical as the seller says he is a wholesaler who took the car in on trade. I'm under no illusions and understand the car will undoubtedly need more work than what I think, but see this as maybe an opportunity to revive a classic and learn along the way. It would certainly require patience, which I'm not known for, but rewarding as well.
Pricing seems reasonable and I would hope to negotiate down some.
What kind of trouble am I thinking of getting into here?
I'm a bit skeptical as the seller says he is a wholesaler who took the car in on trade. I'm under no illusions and understand the car will undoubtedly need more work than what I think, but see this as maybe an opportunity to revive a classic and learn along the way. It would certainly require patience, which I'm not known for, but rewarding as well.
Pricing seems reasonable and I would hope to negotiate down some.
What kind of trouble am I thinking of getting into here?
1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Got to be a fairly substantial risk doesn't it. What year or model and what is the body condition? At the very least you should remove the plugs and see if the motor will turn over by hand. And how long has it not been running? I wouldn't just take an unknown person's word at face value. Is there someone local who could look at it for you?
Paul M
Paul M
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 226
Likes: 3
From: California
The value of a "wholesale" older air cooled car, depending on year/condition, is about 5-7K. Doubt that with a motor that does not run (how does he know about the timing chain) the "wholesaler" would get more. 10K into the engine is easy to do w/o adding performance upgrades, then comes the "other upgrades" and then you are down the slippery slope.......You are probably looking at a money pit, really only a parts car. No matter what you do, it would be a learning experience. I have a money pit in my garage now, and it ran well with a good PPI!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Thank you for the feedback. Certainly all of the concerns mentioned have passed through my head. The car is a 1980 targa. Priced just under $8k.
As much as photos can show the body looks straight. I mentioned the need for paint. The clearcoat is worn in areas, as well as the rear decklid being primed.
I certainly would not bank on the word of the seller as to what the motor needs. He indicates he got the car as is, and has not had a mechanic look at it.
The car is in LA, and can be seen on the samba if anyone is curious.
As much as photos can show the body looks straight. I mentioned the need for paint. The clearcoat is worn in areas, as well as the rear decklid being primed.
I certainly would not bank on the word of the seller as to what the motor needs. He indicates he got the car as is, and has not had a mechanic look at it.
The car is in LA, and can be seen on the samba if anyone is curious.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,824
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From: NYC metro area
I wouldn't get involved, but if you must, I would hire a lawyer. The money should go in an escrow account and make the sale contingent upon what the seller is telling you it needs to run. If it doesn't fix the issue, sale is void. Also make sure owner picks up all delivery expenses, if you have to return the car 
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,509
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From: Toronto
The most likely scenario is that this car suffered and failed chain tensioner. The resultant engine damage can be significant and you will burn through $10K easily getting that taken care of (best case is half of that, if you do all the work yourself and the damage is not TOO severe). Needs paint? $5K for a decent (not great, just decent) job – might save some more if you can find a shop that will work with you and allow you to do disassembly/prep. Probably other “wear and tear” items (such as shocks, brakes etc.) that should be addressed. This is getting to be one very expensive 911 already. Even doing everything yourself, you will still struggle to not be upside down on this car.
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Racer
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 392
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From: Westchester NY
If you are looking for a long term project this may not be a bad idea. No matter what the seller says the damage is worse than he things. There may be that 1 in 100000 chance its not. When I bought my SC 2nd did not engage, the PO though the gear was shot, and the cars price reflected as such, turned out to be bad coupler bushings. 20$ and it was shifting like new. I would agree that the money should go in to escrow and you should take all matters of legality in to account. I have read countless threads of things like this going very wrong.
If you are looking for a car that you can drive and do minor repairs on this is NOT it. Hold out and find what you are looking for. I have bought many Porsche's impulsively and I will admit I have lucked out but that will catch up with me one day, and I know it will. I was a silly 19 year old when I Bought my 911 and I had no idea what a PPI was. Thankfully the car was in great shape and I lucked out but that doesn't always happen. Either get a PPI or have some local PCA or rennlisters look at the car with you. There are a lot of great guys both here and over on pelican who would be more than happy to look at it with you, or for you if you are not in the area.
I say go for it, it could be a fun project....
Regards
Dave
If you are looking for a car that you can drive and do minor repairs on this is NOT it. Hold out and find what you are looking for. I have bought many Porsche's impulsively and I will admit I have lucked out but that will catch up with me one day, and I know it will. I was a silly 19 year old when I Bought my 911 and I had no idea what a PPI was. Thankfully the car was in great shape and I lucked out but that doesn't always happen. Either get a PPI or have some local PCA or rennlisters look at the car with you. There are a lot of great guys both here and over on pelican who would be more than happy to look at it with you, or for you if you are not in the area.
I say go for it, it could be a fun project....
Regards
Dave
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Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Bakersfield, CA, for now...
$8K? For a car that doesn't run and needs paint? Uh, I think $2-3K would be closer to the right price. Forget the escrow idea, the seller will never entertain such an approach. But, if you can, take a 911 expert with you to look at the car (after successfully negotiating a reasonable price), even if the expert charges you $500.
Addict
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 37,754
Likes: 15
From: Alta Loma Alone
Seems the seller has pissed off a couple folks:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=X&ei=PHJnT9URo7OyAvyggbcP&ved=0CBoQBSgA&q=phil+newey+cars&spell=1&biw=1016&bih=570
Believe it or not I'll be heading that direction as soon as I hit send. I'll be exiting one exit south of there off the 57.
Sorry, it's a very small world.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=X&ei=PHJnT9URo7OyAvyggbcP&ved=0CBoQBSgA&q=phil+newey+cars&spell=1&biw=1016&bih=570
Believe it or not I'll be heading that direction as soon as I hit send. I'll be exiting one exit south of there off the 57.
Sorry, it's a very small world.
Addict
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 37,754
Likes: 15
From: Alta Loma Alone
Wow. Run Forest run. Just left the dealership. Phil has got 5 Porsches in his showroom. He said the '80 is priced at $7,650. When I asked him what was wrong with it he said it was the timing chain. I asked left or right. He said he didn't know there was two. Again, Run Forest run.
EDIT: Just adding the picture of the store front.
EDIT: Just adding the picture of the store front.
Last edited by Amber Gramps; Mar 19, 2012 at 06:08 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Thanks Amber lamps and all others who chimed in. Always good advice here.
I was leaning toward a pass anyway. Bad vibes from the seller. Most importantly, the lady who runs the house was also urging a pass, she would rather I just buy a done car so she does not have to wait. Have to keep the peace.
It would have been fun and educational to revive a car, but this is not the one.
I was leaning toward a pass anyway. Bad vibes from the seller. Most importantly, the lady who runs the house was also urging a pass, she would rather I just buy a done car so she does not have to wait. Have to keep the peace.
It would have been fun and educational to revive a car, but this is not the one.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,056
Likes: 1
SC's just aren't worth the restoration, yet. Long hoods, 356's? OK. SC's not yet, unless there is some sentimental attachment to the car or unless it is going to be a driver for you for a very long time. Then, fix it up and drive and drive and drive. It could be a tub for a modified project car or race car, but that is too much to pay for a tub.
Brett
Brett