Why I love both air and water ... and I need more of it
03-06-2012, 05:10 PM
#31
Damn, I just hate this question, which is why have so many of these cars. So with this said I will offer my reply based on what you already have, both nice.
My add would be a ST, 2.5ss or 2.8ss, twin plug, MFI, high butterfly in any of the old school '70 colors. The build would be based on a '72 tub to get the oil door.
My add would be a ST, 2.5ss or 2.8ss, twin plug, MFI, high butterfly in any of the old school '70 colors. The build would be based on a '72 tub to get the oil door.
03-11-2012, 04:19 AM
#34
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
What a group. I get so misty eyed with sentiment every time I hear back from all of you when I have a sincere question. That's why I can never be without you guys. Whalebird, my hero. I love you. Ed (Ivangene), how have you been my friend ? Thanks for all the replies as I decide on whats next for me.
I don't want to get into the specifics of why I chose to do this but I have spent the last 6 months taking care of patients at two different practices 145 miles apart. Taking care of patients is what I do best and thats what it is all about for me. I could not be doing this if not for my stable of PORSCHES. When the weather is perfect it is the 3.2, when it is iffy or when there is torrential downpour or good few inches of snow then it is the 997 C4S, when the snow plough is called for the Cayenne is always there. My 997 had 12,000 miles in Oct and now has 21K on the odometer. But thanks to PORSCHE, I will always remain a HENRY.
Let's dissect most responses here:
1. 356 : May be something I get into when I have met or even exceeded all my financial obligations in life. When I get it, the car will be a cabriolet, one that is a well preserved or accurately restored car. One that will be a blue chip investment. One that will get me into Pebble Beach concours d elegance. For now this car for now is all about a trip down memory lane. I cannot do justice to having one of these right now at age 41. This is more like when I am 55+
2. Early pre-impact bumper 911: I know very little about these cars other than the following: I dream of this car most days of the week. It just looks like the perfect car. It's interior is a work of art. The seats, the ? carbon fiber dash etc. I really love the design of it's steering wheel (way nicer than the 3.2 IMO), the long hood, . I'll take one in slate grey which would perfectly complement the chrome bumpers and trim on the pillars. But my serious concern is that would it be a lateral move from my 3.2. I do know that they have a high revving engine with a much more torquey feel than the 3.2 but ... is it worth dumping my pristine, fully documented well maintained 3.2 to get into one of these. Guys can I really justify having two pre-89 cars.
3. 997 GT3RS: As days pass by ( it's been two and a half years of Porsche ownership for me) my emotions gravitate to the camp that feels that a Porsche should be pure, raw and hard core. Comforts dilute the car. One day I will buy a GT3 ... Heck may be even a GT3RS 4.0 (but finding one that too one that is spec'd right without the usual dealer over spec'd options may be impossible and the ones who really spec'd them to a custom order will never part with their car). But for a novice driver who has never ever been to a track, driver's skill event or dare I say even a club driving event, the GT3 RS is just not right. It's like hiring Emeril Lagasse to make a peanut butter sandwich. One day I will get a pure, hard core road racer 911 and it will be a GT3RS for sure. I am not worthy of that car at this time when the words like apex, heel toe, rev matching, blipping the throttle are all like greek and latin to me.
This leaves me to consider three cars for my next Porsche. Not one that is a show car, an investment or one that will cost a fortune (100K plus). This will have to be a bridge car, the car where I really get to learn and experience the world of performance driving. One that is track focused with a stick shift. One that will be a prelude to the GT3RS. One that my 997C4S, Cayenne or '86 coupe cannot be. (I am not sure if the '86 coupe could fit this role)
1. The Porsche Boxster spyder: For the benefit of the old-timers here (just kidding), this is a lighter (by 175 lbs) car with a sport-tuned suspension, stiffer roll bars, different spring rates, wider track, 1.6 inches lower than a regular Boxster. The car has rave reviews universally. Again finding one spec'd right (with a manual transmission, sport bucket seats) would be a challenge but this is a great looking car that would be a perfect road car from April through Sept for my weekly 140 mile one way commute, yet something that I could take to the track (not sure if not being to add a roll cage is a deal breaker) to practice performance driving.
2. A 993: Ed Hughes's choice. I really need some thoughts on this car. Is this a car that one can really put through the kind of abuse that a track day would see. Help me guys.
3. 996GT3: These do not suffer from the issues that plagued some of the standard 996 cars cylinder bore failure, RMS leak. One of the cheapest and best 911s for track driving.
So which one guys ... 996Gt3 over the other two seems to be one that would be cheaper to own and operate.
Oh BTW, HENRY is high earner not rich yet .... I am not complaining though.
I don't want to get into the specifics of why I chose to do this but I have spent the last 6 months taking care of patients at two different practices 145 miles apart. Taking care of patients is what I do best and thats what it is all about for me. I could not be doing this if not for my stable of PORSCHES. When the weather is perfect it is the 3.2, when it is iffy or when there is torrential downpour or good few inches of snow then it is the 997 C4S, when the snow plough is called for the Cayenne is always there. My 997 had 12,000 miles in Oct and now has 21K on the odometer. But thanks to PORSCHE, I will always remain a HENRY.
Let's dissect most responses here:
1. 356 : May be something I get into when I have met or even exceeded all my financial obligations in life. When I get it, the car will be a cabriolet, one that is a well preserved or accurately restored car. One that will be a blue chip investment. One that will get me into Pebble Beach concours d elegance. For now this car for now is all about a trip down memory lane. I cannot do justice to having one of these right now at age 41. This is more like when I am 55+
2. Early pre-impact bumper 911: I know very little about these cars other than the following: I dream of this car most days of the week. It just looks like the perfect car. It's interior is a work of art. The seats, the ? carbon fiber dash etc. I really love the design of it's steering wheel (way nicer than the 3.2 IMO), the long hood, . I'll take one in slate grey which would perfectly complement the chrome bumpers and trim on the pillars. But my serious concern is that would it be a lateral move from my 3.2. I do know that they have a high revving engine with a much more torquey feel than the 3.2 but ... is it worth dumping my pristine, fully documented well maintained 3.2 to get into one of these. Guys can I really justify having two pre-89 cars.
3. 997 GT3RS: As days pass by ( it's been two and a half years of Porsche ownership for me) my emotions gravitate to the camp that feels that a Porsche should be pure, raw and hard core. Comforts dilute the car. One day I will buy a GT3 ... Heck may be even a GT3RS 4.0 (but finding one that too one that is spec'd right without the usual dealer over spec'd options may be impossible and the ones who really spec'd them to a custom order will never part with their car). But for a novice driver who has never ever been to a track, driver's skill event or dare I say even a club driving event, the GT3 RS is just not right. It's like hiring Emeril Lagasse to make a peanut butter sandwich. One day I will get a pure, hard core road racer 911 and it will be a GT3RS for sure. I am not worthy of that car at this time when the words like apex, heel toe, rev matching, blipping the throttle are all like greek and latin to me.
This leaves me to consider three cars for my next Porsche. Not one that is a show car, an investment or one that will cost a fortune (100K plus). This will have to be a bridge car, the car where I really get to learn and experience the world of performance driving. One that is track focused with a stick shift. One that will be a prelude to the GT3RS. One that my 997C4S, Cayenne or '86 coupe cannot be. (I am not sure if the '86 coupe could fit this role)
1. The Porsche Boxster spyder: For the benefit of the old-timers here (just kidding), this is a lighter (by 175 lbs) car with a sport-tuned suspension, stiffer roll bars, different spring rates, wider track, 1.6 inches lower than a regular Boxster. The car has rave reviews universally. Again finding one spec'd right (with a manual transmission, sport bucket seats) would be a challenge but this is a great looking car that would be a perfect road car from April through Sept for my weekly 140 mile one way commute, yet something that I could take to the track (not sure if not being to add a roll cage is a deal breaker) to practice performance driving.
2. A 993: Ed Hughes's choice. I really need some thoughts on this car. Is this a car that one can really put through the kind of abuse that a track day would see. Help me guys.
3. 996GT3: These do not suffer from the issues that plagued some of the standard 996 cars cylinder bore failure, RMS leak. One of the cheapest and best 911s for track driving.
So which one guys ... 996Gt3 over the other two seems to be one that would be cheaper to own and operate.
Oh BTW, HENRY is high earner not rich yet .... I am not complaining though.
Last edited by w00tPORSCHE; 03-11-2012 at 04:55 AM.
03-11-2012, 11:01 AM
#35
Rennlist Member
I'm confused. In your original post you were waxing poetic about your air-cooled Carrera and ended the post with "I really am addicted with air-cooled p-car and given that special experience I always wonder what other models do I have to own to sample the full DNA of the Porsche air cooled line up."
Yet, the 3 cars you're considering include 2 modern watercooled cars and one that came later than your current '86, the one you're shedding tears of joy over. I can endorse any of your 3 choices as track beasts, but they all represent the opposite direction from what you originally said you wanted. Although fantastic performing cars, neither the Boxster nor the 996 GT3 contain any of the classic DNA you apparently lust for. I'll state this succinctly: if you want more of what the '86 Carrera gives you, you have to go to an earlier car.
edit: An SC or Carrera are an absolute blast on the track, even in factory stock form. Getting a faster car can lower your track times, but you're not going to have any more fun in it than you would with an SC/Carrera. I've driven my '86 and my 997 S on tracks, and the 997 was way faster but not nearly as much fun.
Yet, the 3 cars you're considering include 2 modern watercooled cars and one that came later than your current '86, the one you're shedding tears of joy over. I can endorse any of your 3 choices as track beasts, but they all represent the opposite direction from what you originally said you wanted. Although fantastic performing cars, neither the Boxster nor the 996 GT3 contain any of the classic DNA you apparently lust for. I'll state this succinctly: if you want more of what the '86 Carrera gives you, you have to go to an earlier car.
edit: An SC or Carrera are an absolute blast on the track, even in factory stock form. Getting a faster car can lower your track times, but you're not going to have any more fun in it than you would with an SC/Carrera. I've driven my '86 and my 997 S on tracks, and the 997 was way faster but not nearly as much fun.
03-11-2012, 11:17 AM
#36
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Dave, u have all the reasons to be confused. My bad. Don't you think I should learn how to drive a 911 before I get a proper 911 ;-) that's why I call it the bridge car ... One that will pave the way to my ultimate dream car(s). May be even changing from my current stable of the 997 C4S and 3.2 to say a 997 GT3RS and a long hood early 70's 911 in a few years from now. I know that it contradicts my initial post and that's why I threw in the 993 as a potential candidate. On one hand my heart says an earlier than '86 911 but my head says learn how to drive one first by getting a car that is less forgiving while learning to drive it the way they are meant to be. You bring up a great point in just using my '86 coupe as a track toy. I can never see myself as one who would get into serious tracking but so want to learn how to properly drive these cars with unique driving dynamics. I can see myself abusing a 996 but to take my '86 coupe that is in immaculate shape both mechanically and aesthetically to these driving skill events on the track ... I don't know.
Last edited by w00tPORSCHE; 03-11-2012 at 12:21 PM.
03-11-2012, 11:39 AM
#37
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I repeat that the joy I get when I drive my 3.2 is lacking when I drive my 997 but I've heard several folks say that the only water pumper that matches the older cars are the stripped GT versions and that is why I am thinking GT3RS as my only water cooled 911 down the road. I still can't imagine how people who want a 911 all their life can get a 997 TTS with 530 hp and god knows how much nm of torque as their first car and say that their long term dream has been realized.
Last edited by w00tPORSCHE; 03-11-2012 at 12:16 PM.
03-11-2012, 12:27 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
I guess I missed the point about you wanting track time. Someone above suggested your '86 as a track car, and I "laughed" at that-I doubt you would track that car. A lot of people do track everyday 911's, but the use does take its toll. A nice long hood would not be my choice here either, for that same reason, no matter how much fun it is.
The stock car aspect makes sense to ramp up your learning curve, and I'd not consider a GT3 in that category. A 964 or 993 would be different than what you have now, and both would make great DE cars in stock form, that you can hone your skills in. They'd also keep you satisfied for longer, if the bug bites, without a lot of mods. You could always make changes to one of those, and/or jump to a stock GT3 in time.
The stock car aspect makes sense to ramp up your learning curve, and I'd not consider a GT3 in that category. A 964 or 993 would be different than what you have now, and both would make great DE cars in stock form, that you can hone your skills in. They'd also keep you satisfied for longer, if the bug bites, without a lot of mods. You could always make changes to one of those, and/or jump to a stock GT3 in time.
03-11-2012, 12:57 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
One bonus is that Porsche continues to produce what I call "throw back" models. The 93/93 RS America was such a model. That heavy steering was reminsicent of my SC, and that special "Porsche feel" in the seat of my pants was most certainly there. I did not get that feeling with any of the 993s (sorry, but that is how I feel). And I think the 996 was the ugliest and cheapest-quality Porsche ever built. In 2004, I had a friend throw me the keys to his 996 GT3 and it was love at first drive. It felt more SC than 996 - the steering was tight, the engine growled and snorted, and the drive feel was sublime. In 2006, I bought my 996 GT3 and placed an order for a 997.1 GT3 as a replacement. The dealer called me up when it arrived, and I took a test drive and decided to pass... Turns out Porsche "softened" the 997.1 GT3 because the customers of the 996 GT3 complained that it was TOO RAW. Luckily, Porsche righted this temporary wrong with the 997.2 GT3, but IMHO it is still not as raw as the 996 variant.
Woot - If you want the ultimate GT3, the 4.0 is your answer. But if you want a throw-back 911 for the track with plenty of grunt that puts a massive grin on your face, look no further than the 996 GT3. I think the 996 GT3 would be the perfect complement to your stable. Go scratch that track itch!
My $0.02,
-B
03-11-2012, 01:51 PM
#40
It sounds to me as if you are confused by all the options. This is not surprising as your thinking is covering the entire spectrum of Porsche history. Unless you are in a time constraint to acquire something, I would suggest that you spend some time getting some exposure to all that Porsche history has to offer. In your area there are quite a few enthusiasts for all these cars. Get to meet these guys, spend some time riding and driving some of their cars. You might be surprised that within the long hood crowd there is split between SWB & LWB favorites. Same goes with the 356 crowed, early vs. late.
I currently own a 356, 912, '69 & '72 911, '86 3.2, & a '94 964. In the past I also had a 996, 928, 944, & a 914. I tell you this so that when I say to you, they all have different ways to bring a grin to your soul, it is from personal experience.
Take the time to listen to all that have opinions but go out and get some seat time in each to form your own grins.
Good luck in your journey of enlightenment, I envy your awakening to all the choices before you.
I currently own a 356, 912, '69 & '72 911, '86 3.2, & a '94 964. In the past I also had a 996, 928, 944, & a 914. I tell you this so that when I say to you, they all have different ways to bring a grin to your soul, it is from personal experience.
Take the time to listen to all that have opinions but go out and get some seat time in each to form your own grins.
Good luck in your journey of enlightenment, I envy your awakening to all the choices before you.
03-11-2012, 02:06 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Great posts. Keep it coming guys. Gosh I wish I did not dump 60k (that's how much I would lose if I had the trade in the Cayenne and the 997 today) ... Money that would have come in handy in so many different ways as I explore what is next for me. I should certainly go and connect with people who have decades of experience with these cars. Wish I had bought something else as my first 911. Oh well it's just money that I lose. All this free tuition recieved from you enthusiasts sort of hedges the monetary losses. I am looking at it this way. I have 4 more years or 55k more miles to put on my 997 C4S before it runs out of warranty. That would the time for a GT3RS 4.0 as my only water pumper. So between now and then I should perfect my driving skills and be worthy of an owner of such a car.
03-11-2012, 06:03 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
In that case, get some track time in the 997. You may be surprised how many take their new Porsches out on a regular basis, and drive the snot out of them on the street between outings. You'll get the driving experience for the "3"!
03-11-2012, 06:05 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
Here are some ideas. I told my wife we coulda cashed I our retirement fund and got the GT1, but she didn't see the wisdom:
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...melia-island/1
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...melia-island/1
03-11-2012, 09:08 PM
#44
I beg you to reconsider only buying a "Pebble Beach" 356 cab. These cars can be, and are for some, daily drivers today. Don't limit your consideration to a 356 that you would be afraid to put on the road. They are driver's cars. Even if you do want the garage queen later on, consider getting one to drive, and maybe get it now to drive in the meantime. I'm saying you can get into a great driver 356 coupe for $30-40,000. Thrash it for a few years as a bridge car, and sell it for more than what you paid for it, and then put your "winnings" toward the garage queen cab. Who knows? After driving one, you may find you don't want the garage queen after all. 
Great post from bobaines. If you can get some real seat time from some other owners, that should help the decision.
The other thing that strikes me is that, particularly with your funding level, these decisions probably don't have to be so hard thought. It may be rather fun to give into a little automotive ADHD. Buy your daily favorite right now, and see where it takes you. You may want to sell it in a couple of weeks. No harm, no foul. Sell it and pick up your next daily "fave."
Your itch. Good luck scratching it. You're going to have a lot of fun!
Brett
Great post from bobaines. If you can get some real seat time from some other owners, that should help the decision.
The other thing that strikes me is that, particularly with your funding level, these decisions probably don't have to be so hard thought. It may be rather fun to give into a little automotive ADHD. Buy your daily favorite right now, and see where it takes you. You may want to sell it in a couple of weeks. No harm, no foul. Sell it and pick up your next daily "fave."
Your itch. Good luck scratching it. You're going to have a lot of fun!
Brett
Last edited by Brett San Diego; 03-11-2012 at 09:29 PM.
03-12-2012, 12:47 AM
#45
Rennlist Member
You already have a fantastic classic 911 and a newish 997 so I don't see the point of getting another 911 to use as a "bridge" car (what on earth does that mean??). Either buy your dream car right now, or wait a few years if you need to, but I see no point in buying a 3rd 911 as a temporary car when you already have two PERFECT cars to improve your driving skills in. You don't need to go to a track to learn to drive a 911 well. If you're not going to race competitively, street driving will give you all the experience you need. Further, you do not need to be an expert driver to own and enjoy a GT3 4.0, or any other 911 variant. Just drive according to your ability, which will naturally improve with time. And lastly, absolutely no one is unworthy of owning one of them. You've been worthy since day one.
My advice is, drive and enjoy both cars as often as possible. Keep or sell the 997 as your heart tells you. Buy your dream car when the time is right. Until then, cherish the aircooled Carrera and keep it pristine. That one will teach you more about driving a 911 than the 997 will.
My advice is, drive and enjoy both cars as often as possible. Keep or sell the 997 as your heart tells you. Buy your dream car when the time is right. Until then, cherish the aircooled Carrera and keep it pristine. That one will teach you more about driving a 911 than the 997 will.