911fan

I currently own a 2002 Boxster as my first Porsche. I love the feel of this car so much that I am now very interested in buying an older 911.

What would be good years of the 911 that I could puchase that would allow me to work on the car myself? My only requirements would be that the 911 I purchase have around the same or more HP than my Boxster

I assume that somewhere in the late 80's or early 90's the cars started to get so much "computerization" that the home mechanic would find it hard to work on them (or too expensive to buy the tools).

Many Thanks!! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Rick Lee

What's your budget like and how competent a wrench are you? I think most folks will recommend the '84-'89 3.2l Carreras and maybe the '78-'83 3.0l SC's as the most classic and reliable 911's, which are still easy to wrench on yourself. There are several major differences in each model SC and Carrera. I'm partial to the '87-'89 Carreras because of the G50 transmission. They have I think 217hp. Anything newer than that and you're moving into 964 and 993 territory, for which parts are much more expensive, rebuilds outrageously so and are more prone to tiny electrical annoyances, which are no fun tracking down. For under $25k you should be able to find a super clean Carrera. Again, find out which glitches apply to whatever year you're looking at. Some are are small and some are big. As they all say, buy nothing without a PPI and take your time.

ked

You have come to the right place (thread). The models for you to consider (& by that I suggest reading up, meeting owners & driving) are the '78-83 SC (3.0) & '84-89 Carrera (3.2). When you review the relevant FAQs, you will see why. As to performance, the only way to tell for sure is to drive them & compare. They differ more in feel than posted 0-60 times (which imo is a metric much over-valued, esp. for Porsches).
cheers!

911fan

Thanks to both Rick and Kevin!

I am fairly good with the wrench having replaced suspensions, diffs, heads, brakes and other components in my past life as a Datsun 240Z/260Z/280Z owner.

I have been doing some reading on the late 80's 3.2 Carrera's and the budget is on target ($15-20K). I like the late 80's Carrera's HP numbers being roughly the same as my '02 Boxster.

I agree that I am not concerned with 0-60 times. People on the street seem to always want to drag race my Boxster. They may beat me with their 300+ HP Detroit iron but I am never embarassed. The ones that pull over to talk never want to race me through the twisties!!

My next question(s) would be:

1. Targa or Coupe? (leaning towards Targa)
2. Do the Targa bodies hold their rigid-ness over time?
3. Can these 3.2 engines ever be swapped out to larger motors without breaking the bank account? (I know. I know. Anything can be done with enough patience and money!!)

Rick Lee

If you're thinking of putting a 3.6l in an SC or Carrera, then go ahead and buy a 964. If you drop $20k on a Carrera and want a 3.6l in there, it will end up costing you as much as if you had just gone ahead and bought a 964, which can be had for pretty cheap these days, considering what you're getting. If you don't have a garage, I would stay away from the Targas, as their tops do leak. For $22k you can probably find a decent 964, which already has a 3.6l engine and a lot more creature comforts. But 964's are whole other can of worms.

larkja

911Fan -

I too have wrenched on many 240Zs and still have one along with an '82 911. The 911s are very fun cars on and off the track but no comparison to working on a 240z. The engine bay of the 240z is spacious compared to that of the 911. I do most of the work on the 240z including clutch, tranny, diff, brakes, etc. replacements. I wouldn't attempt this with the 911.

Not only are parts way cheaper for the 240z but it's just easier to work on. I now just take the 911 to the mechanic for tune ups, etc. I'll change oil and filters, but that's about it.

You will not be able to match the Boxter's 250hp performance with a 3.0L SC ('78 - '83), unless you pour a whole lot of money into injection, exhaust, etc. but I'm still not sure you would be able to gain 70hp (the 3.0L is 180hp stock unless you find a euro verson).

Same goes for the 3.2L. Also a great motor, but you'll have to invest quite a few thousands in exhaust, chips, intake, etc. if you want to get 250hp out of it.

After I purchased my '82, I realized there's only so much that can be done. So, rather than blow money on it, I put a new motor in my 240z and use that as my weekend racer and the 911 as the daily driver. The 240z now has a 270hp Rebello Racing 3.0L. Not bad in a 2400lb car. If you're ever racing in CA and see a red 240z coming up fast, that'll be me :-)

Hope this helped.
Jim

ked

The most effective way to "fully" service an old 911 is to drop the drivetrain (annually or semiannually, depending on how much & how hard you drive it) in order to access everything easily in one fell swoop. It is designed for this approach, and it can be performed by 1 capable owner + 1 enthusiastic helper.

As to HP my advice is; don't get hung up on raw numbers. Perform a seat-of-your-pants test in light of your personal taste & goals.

8 Canary

Is your horse power requirement based on the fear of a replacement 911 being slower than your Boxster? Note the power and torque that comes with any of the 3.2 Carreras also comes in a much lighter package. I can hold by own against tuned and tweeked Boxster S on the track. The non-S are easy pickins. I have a 85 coupe with 3.4 P&C's all else is stock.

Rememeber each year Porsches get more and more heavy. Boxster lineage to a 550, PLEASE. Its a bloated comfort cruiser. A 914 has more in common with a 550, than any Boxster.

911fan

larkja - 270HP in a 240Z!! Nice race car for the right price!

I certainly understand that the engine room is much more cramped on a 911. That is OK with me as I do have the patience and I do have lots of tools. I have a garage to store this beauty in.

&gt;Is your horse power requirement based on the &gt;fear of a replacement 911 being slower than your &gt;Boxster? Note the power and torque that comes &gt;with any of the 3.2 Carreras also comes in a &gt;much lighter package. I can hold by own against &gt;tuned and tweeked Boxster S on the track. The &gt;non-S are easy pickins. I have a 85 coupe with &gt;3.4 P&C's all else is stock

That is good to hear. I am not all about horsepower!

So how do these 1987-89 Carrera's run in the heat? I live in Phoenix and it gets quite hot down here (112 today).

Is there an online FAQ to look at for purchasing 1987-1989 Carrera? (what to look for, etc...)

Many thanks to all!

Rick Lee

I there's a "How to Buy a 911" FAQ thread on <a href="http://www.aicauto.com." target="_blank">www.aicauto.com.</a>

8 Canary

Air-cooled cars in general do not have much of a problem with heat, as long as there is fresh air moving through the engine and coolers. Sitting in gridlocked traffic with 100 other cars nearby, raising the ambient air temperature higher and higher, will cause an air-cooled Porsche to get hot fast and stay hot, often too hot.

At a recent track event (Streets of Willow 95+ deg F) I ran all day (250+ miles of track time) without the needle climbing past the mid point on the gage. There were however several water pumpers (ZO6 vette included), that had to sit on the bench for a couple of sessions due to high temps.

Now as for the ability of the A/C to keep the driver cool in high temps, that is a another topic all together. See the multiple posts on this forum about 911 A/C.

gerry100

I've got an '86 3.2 and concur with most everything posted on this topic.

AC is marginal- last Sunday cruising in 5th, 70MPH,90Deg/high humidity, fan and AC turned to max(black coupe)- AC basically fought the weather to a noisy draw.(probably 75deg in the car).

My owners manual suggests changing gears to run at higher RPM to increase cooling.Think about it.

bds1

I have an 80 SC. If you by one of these years you will come to understand this


"You can do ALL (everything) maintainence on your porsche (78-82), but NOTHING is easy" I agree with a previous reply " drop the engine at the end of the season"

Tony'z911

[quote]Originally posted by gerry100:
<strong>I've got an '86 3.2 and concur with most everything posted on this topic.</strong><hr></blockquote>
DITTO!

[quote]Originally posted by gerry100:
<strong>My owners manual suggests changing gears to run at higher RPM to increase cooling.Think about it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

gerry100- Why not just step on the throttle and increase your rpm's in your current gear, that's what I do!?!
No, actually my a/c works very well for an '86 Porsche! It does fine w/ anything under 100 and we don't get too many days above that here in Maryland. The thing that I'm disappointed in is that none of my vents can really be angled to hit the driver, only the passenger. Even so, the car is still comfortable to drive in in the summer heat.

-T

gerry100

Tony,

The point I was making was that the AC is not overbuilt as in the typical america V8.

If you are stating cool in MD, it may be that mine needs a charge. This is my first summer with the car.

Gerry